Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Poker Education & Beginners Questions / Old Hand Analysis Section /

Did i play the flop too slow?

 
Old
Default
Did i play the flop too slow? - Mon Jun 13, 2011, 05:38 PM
(#1)
17oli17's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 5
WhiteStar
First of all here's the hand then I'll give you the rundown of why i played it like i did....





This guy joined our table about 5-10 hands ago he hasn't played much and seems to be your average TAG, we're at level 10 of the tournament (PSO skill league tourney) and its mainly been lots of Pre Flop action and every few hands a flop comes out. I get KJo and make my standard raise of 4BB, one caller. I hit two pair on the flop and i think this guy is at best on KQ although its probably more like K10 maybe an A high mid-high kicker hand possibly suited, anyway i figure a big raise is going to scare him off so i take my time and raise half my pre flop raise (making him think i'm bluffing). He takes the bait and calls turn 6d doesn't change much so still with my original read, thinking he's proabably on K's or J's with a mid-high kicker i check thinking he's likely to bet, i'm ready to shove over the top if he does. My plan works he calls with Ad7d (drawing to the 9 outs) and he hits his diamond flush on the river.

Is this a bad play should i have raised more on the flop or raised heavy on the turn, or am i just a victim of a bad beat. I think i played this hand fairly well i got my chips in good and he hit his draw, could i have played this better?

Last edited by 17oli17; Mon Jun 13, 2011 at 05:42 PM..
 
Old
Default
Mon Jun 13, 2011, 06:28 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
with as many chips as you had.. and importantly, the position you're in... it's a muck preflop.

With 6 to act after you.... more often than not, you're behind anyone that calls you. You can find a better spot with better position to get your chips into.

With seeing the flop, it is a bad beat with them hitting runner, runner..... BUT... you should have never been in the hand to start with.
 
Old
Default
Mon Jun 13, 2011, 06:40 PM
(#3)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
Fold preflop. Or maybe minraise if table is super nitty. Can't raise-fold on 20 BBs. It's bad. And KJ is not the kind of hand you want to play postflop especially out of position.

On the flop that bet is the worst possible thing you can do. The turn check is pretty bad too. Honestly I'd probably ship the flop. Maybe only bet 4000-5000, but I think shoving looks weaker.

Don't ever bet less than your preflop raise. Betting that small never looks like a bluff. It looks like either a monster or some super weak hand like a pair of 3s that doesn't want to commit. With ace high and a backdoor flush draw though, he has to call to float.

Also, don't be results-oriented. He sucked out on the river.

Final point. He called A7 suited preflop on 20 BBs effective. He's not TAG. He floated the flop with ace high and backdoor flush draw. The right move, but not TAG.
 
Old
Default
Mon Jun 13, 2011, 08:54 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
I agree with the others, definitely this is a fold preflop in your situation.

I also don't like the small flop bet. I think it's only good if the villain is known to attack weak bets very aggressively, so you can reasonably induce a raise with it. This guy, just from this hand, seems more on the loose caller side so value bet higher.

Also ori is right, the villains line is not consistent with a TAG, it's consistent with a weak player who is too loose.
 
Old
Default
Mon Jun 13, 2011, 10:18 PM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Also ori is right, the villains line is not consistent with a TAG, it's consistent with a weak player who is too loose.
I'll 3rd that one.
 
Old
Default
Tue Jun 14, 2011, 07:50 PM
(#6)
17oli17's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 5
WhiteStar
Cheers guys, think i need to learn a lot more about reading players styles.Also i understand that i should of mucked it pre flop but i have one question, is there ever a good time to raise this hand in this position less players/on the bubble/bigger blinds and antes?

Thanks again for the advice
 
Old
Default
Tue Jun 14, 2011, 08:03 PM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17oli17 View Post
Cheers guys, think i need to learn a lot more about reading players styles.Also i understand that i should of mucked it pre flop but i have one question, is there ever a good time to raise this hand in this position less players/on the bubble/bigger blinds and antes?

Thanks again for the advice

If you've got less than 5bb left, then it's ok to shove with it and hope to get lucky... but anything other than that, it's a muck from that position to me. Also ok to play if short-handed (3 or less). On bubble, I'm avoiding it at all costs.
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com