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Any advice on the Ad Kd hand

 
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Any advice on the Ad Kd hand - Tue Jun 14, 2011, 02:27 AM
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Skinza101's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
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Hey, I am new to poker and have gone through the first three topics. I got kicked out of this tournament and was wondering if I made a big mistake. like going all-in out of position or if I should have folded from the limp in by the two bigger stacks. I was 5BB from being out.



Last edited by Skinza101; Tue Jun 14, 2011 at 02:42 AM..
 
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Tue Jun 14, 2011, 04:59 AM
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Nah this is fine. When you're in a short stack essentially you have no other choice than to go all in; AKs is pretty much as it gets unless you luck out and hit some high pocket pair.

A tip though: usually we measure the size of your stack in terms of a theoretical concept, 'M'. Essentially you measure the cost of folding every hand for one orbit, that is, all 9 antes + the small blind + the big blind, and divide your stack by this number. This gives a measure of how many orbits you could survive (assuming no change in blinds) which is probably a better indication of how you should be playing than the number of big blinds you have.

It's not that important, but you'll probably see it if you read about short stack play, and a lot of the time people also post it with their hand evaluation requests.
 
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Tue Jun 14, 2011, 06:24 AM
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With 5 BBs and AK if you did anything but push all your chips into the middle preflop you made a huge mistake.

You did exactly that. You played the hand perfectly.

Also, once you're all-in position is meaningless.
 
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Tue Jun 14, 2011, 11:59 AM
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with 5BB's left, what you're looking for is a hand to push with.... AKs surely qualifies.

You did the correct thing and I'd push everytime with those cards in that situation.
 
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Tue Jun 14, 2011, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jf70 View Post
Nah this is fine. When you're in a short stack essentially you have no other choice than to go all in; AKs is pretty much as it gets unless you luck out and hit some high pocket pair.

A tip though: usually we measure the size of your stack in terms of a theoretical concept, 'M'. Essentially you measure the cost of folding every hand for one orbit, that is, all 9 antes + the small blind + the big blind, and divide your stack by this number. This gives a measure of how many orbits you could survive (assuming no change in blinds) which is probably a better indication of how you should be playing than the number of big blinds you have.

It's not that important, but you'll probably see it if you read about short stack play, and a lot of the time people also post it with their hand evaluation requests.
A bit "more" about "M" (in case you are interested):

M is a measure of your stack, divided by the pre-flop pot size (as the OP stated) that would include blinds and antes.

Dan Harrington, in Harrington on Hold 'Em Vol. 2 (the red covered book) posited "M" as a "strong force" at work upon your decision making processes in MTT poker. He cites this as a measure of "inference points", where as your "M" drops, your play decisions must begin to change. In Vol 2, Harrington goes on to out line some specific changes based upon clored "zones". In this hand you've posted, you are well into the "Red Zone", or Critical play zone, where you simply cannot pass up any gr. 1 type hand (except in the most EXTREME situations). 2 limpers certainly does not constitute "extreme" circumstances!

You need a double up (or more) BAD, and you need it now. When you catch AKs, and only see weak action ahead, certainly someone might have limped a pocket pair...that doesn't matter. Your play was entirely justifiable.

By the way...

"M" is a nice number to use for hanging your thought processes, but there really is nothing overly wrong with using BB as a measure of the amount of "play" you have left in your stack. The reason for this is that "M" as a measure of your stack size, and your willingness to "go for it" on a given hand, is not AS usefull in the faster structure events that you tend to find on line. Why?

On line MTTs, unlike deeper stacked live events, tend to get roughly 1 table orbit per blind level. This means roughly each time around the table the blinds increase (duh!).

Depending upon the other stacks sizes at your table, how close to a pay spot, and how soon you will post your next BB, there may be a pretty radical effect on your "Effective M" number. Example:

Let's say you have an "M" of 4, you are 3 off the money, and you are on the button.
There are 5 other stacks at your table between a "M" of 2 and 6.
Since you've already "paid" your blinds, if the stacks that are even shorter than you are coming up on their blinds, you may make the money without playing another hand.
In this case, you really would want to consider yourself as having a larger Effective "M" than your actual 4.

OR...

Let's say you have an "M" of 7, just outside of the "Red Zone" of 5, and you are under the gun.
If the blind leels are likely to increase greatly any time short of about 2 minutes from the time you are dealt a hand, you really will have an efective "M" of well under 7.

So...

What you SHOULD be cognizant of is that whether you are using total BB, or "M", or whatever, what you are really measuring is the amount of "POST FLOP PLAY" that remains in your stack.
The "deeper" your stack (a higher "M", or more total BB's), the more you will be looking to play post flop; the less you have, the less likely you are to be willing to take a flop, then fold...see?

When you are as short as you are here, you have effectively no post flop play.

If you are interested in reading more about "M", here are a couple links:

http://www.sitandgoplanet.com/multit...er_M_Zone.html
http://www.pokerlistings.com/tournam...ne-system-5475
http://www.coinflippoker.com/zonesystem.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-ratio
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Dan-Ha...stem&id=125965
http://www.learn2holdem.com/poker-st...ment-poker.htm

(note that last link includes some stuff on a weaker force Harrington cites: "Q". Q is the ratio of your stack to the average stack in the tournament, and/or at your table. I'll leave you to delve deeper into how that effects your decisions!)

Good luck!
 

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