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66 utg bad play?

 
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66 utg bad play? - Tue Jun 14, 2011, 01:15 PM
(#1)
pokerstar671's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,206
Was wondering if this kind of hand I should have went all in considering my stack? And also wondering if it was ok to call after he reraised me?
 
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Tue Jun 14, 2011, 02:40 PM
(#2)
jf70's Avatar
Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 88
BronzeStar
I think your preflop utg raise was weak and wasteful, I would definitely have folded there. Nine times out of ten the flop won't bring your six and you'll be forced to check out of position, and you will have to fold to your opponent's c-bet. So I think you should have folded, not raised, and definitely not called the reraise ... pocket pairs are valuable as a short stack, heads up, because they all but ensure at least a coinflip, but there really is no reason to play them out of position as a big stack against another big stack.
That said, nice win.
 
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Tue Jun 14, 2011, 03:12 PM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,502
(Head Trainer)
We have 7bb's we are a short stack not a big stack, and we are posting the BB next hand, so we will shortly be losing all reasonable measure fold equity.

66 is a shove when we're this short, I'd be shoving much wider than this UTG on 7 bb's to leverage fold equity while I still have some.

The min-raise is definitely not good on a 7 bb stack, you can't raise 2-3bb's and then fold, so just raise all 7 to apply maximum pressure to your opponents to yield their equity in the pot. Any time your stack is this short you should generally be in "push/fold" mode, no limping, calling, or raising a lessor amount than all in.
 
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Tue Jun 14, 2011, 03:22 PM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
small pair UTG with less than 10BB, needs to be either a shove or a fold preflop. You don't want someone getting in for cheap and outdrawing you on the flop... without paying dearly to see it.

If it was me with your hand... unless there is a big pay level in very, very near future.... then I'm shoving immediately with it. Even then, I'm still wanting to shove.
 
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Tue Jun 14, 2011, 03:25 PM
(#5)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
You're M3 here poker (your stack divided by the size of the pot at the start of the hand via the blinds and antes= M) so you're looking for hands that you can jam or fold. Not hands to make bets with (and certainly not from early position). Set mining with small pairs (22-66) is a good tactic when done at the right time (as inexpensively as possible in other words...) but committing almost 1/3 of your stack pre-flop from early position is NOT inexpensive.

Given that you are M3 here and the blinds are about to hit then this should have been a shove on your part.

Remember set mining will pay off on the flop 1 in every 8 times (7-1 against) over the long haul. It's a good play,in my opinion,when you are provided two things--the opportunity to get away from the hand as cheaply as possibe if you don't hit your set (of course some flops,provided you have a decent read on the players you're up against, will give you a chance to c-bet off a miss and still take it down but that's a different discussion) and a minimal commitment pre-flop on your part to see that flop.Position and stack size are two huge determining factors in this equation.

As you saw here the upside to hitting when you set mine is usually a result like this---you bust the guy,or double up if he has you covered. When it hits it's a great hidden strength hand.

Good result but in this situation it was far from an optimal spot to be making this play. So yes I would have to say bad play on your part here.

As to your call here...meh for THAT weak ass raise you pretty much have to call the additional 3k there so I like the call actually. He could be on something like AK,AQ or any Ax hand really or even a smaller pair,KQ....lots of hands that may not be made and he could miss on even if you miss your set. You already made a weak play by getting involved to begin with and I actually see folding for the additional 3k here as the "compounding the mistake" play here,rather than calling. If something flops that blanks for you and potentially helps him as far as the range you have him on...THEN fold.

The absolute worst play in this hand was his minimum re-raise here BTW. 100% he should be jamming there. And yes,if he HAD jammed pre-flop and THEN you called that would have been terrible.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Tue Jun 14, 2011 at 05:25 PM..
 
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Tue Jun 14, 2011, 04:05 PM
(#6)
pokerstar671's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,206
thanks again every1 sometimes i feel like im clueless
 
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Tue Jun 14, 2011, 05:44 PM
(#7)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstar671 View Post
thanks again every1 sometimes i feel like im clueless

LOL,that's cool,I ALWAYS feel like I'm clueless on a poker table.

(Psst.....the secret is to A. Not be the MOST clueless person on the table and B. Find that person (or persons) and exploit them.

I'll assume this was a PSO table here but be it PSO or the micro-stakes cash MTT/SNG's to me the biggest thing to try and remember is that while,yes,a bad player can and will make a good to great play occasionally they are a bad player for a reason. And that at these levels they are by far the most numerous group of players.Don't try to beat them. Make them try to beat you. Generally you only have to win against them once or twice to bust them and if you just be patient with them they'll walk right into it more often than not.

Look at this hand. You made a bad play with the UTG bet. The villian made a much,much worse play by NOT EXPLOITING your mistake. Had he shoved here you probably would have folded right? By not shoving and letting you see the flop cheaply (overall you payed a dear price to see it yes,but making you pay only 50% more on what you already had committed to this hand is letting you see the flop cheaply at that point) he allowed this result to happen far more often than it would have if he makes an aggressive play with his Jacks.

Recap---Bad play you,then horrible play by him,then good play (IMO) by you.

So who "deserved" then to win the hand?

I say you did.
 

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