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Threes

 
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Threes - Tue Jun 14, 2011, 09:31 PM
(#1)
PLaws62's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 329
had a bad night last night ,blew a big stack lead on a couple of carless hands,but tonight i didnt play the first match just had a shower and relaxed a bit ,then got into a game
got beaten ,lost a few hands a table was winning on low hands,i won a couple then trying to force a hand

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

shouldnt i have scared this guy off ,but hes laughing at me i think ????

Last edited by PLaws62; Tue Jun 14, 2011 at 09:37 PM.. Reason: wrong link
 
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Tue Jun 14, 2011, 10:16 PM
(#2)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Scared him off???!!!

By LIMPING???!!! Worse even---by OPEN LIMPING???!!!

Plaws,man you keep posting these hands,we keep telling you to bet out more aggresively and you keep limping and flatting. WTF dude are you learning impaired or just masochistically stubborn?

If it's a good enough hand to play then it's a good enough hand to raise. PERIOD. Yes at times you should mix up your play here and there but you're making this your regular M.O. from what we see here. Passive poker is losing poker. Passive and tight are NOT the same thing.

This hand you're at Level 7 in PSO. The antes are out. There is 575 in dead money in the middle here. You want these chips. You are not going to get them with weak moves. You're at just under 8 BB's left (or more to the point with the antes out you're M3 here---that's your stack divided by the blinds and antes combined--1933/575=3.36...or M3,that means you have 3 rotations left before you blind out or roughly 25 hands).

When you reach this point you are in push or fold mode. PERIOD. Being as it's PSO and the last 4 players to act in this hand had you covered a small argument could be made to fold this hand but I would strongly disagree myself. It's Level 7 so no real harm if you bust here and there are only 4 hands that you really have to fear here:AA,KK,QQ and AK (suited or not). Anything else and you're ahead or flipping. To me this is an obvious jam situation.

And if I'm the one holding 33 here and someone from UTG+1 jams (and has me covered to boot) then I'm folding the 3's.

Open limping here you invited him to get froggy and he leapt. Coin flip isn't the worst thing in the world here,and it will work out in your favor almost as often as not (you are a slight dog after all),but wouldn't you rather be the one to take the initiative and at least give yourself a chance to take the pot down without a fight?

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Tue Jun 14, 2011 at 10:19 PM..
 
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Tue Jun 14, 2011, 10:27 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
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you really need to be raising or folding preflop.
The only time you want to limp in is from the blinds, or with a really speculative hand with 4+ already in the pot, especially early.

I'd have raised to 750, they'd have most likely pushed and you needed to call. It's the classic race situation. You're going to win 1 of 2 of these, and you're going to lose 1 of 2 of them.
 
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Tue Jun 14, 2011, 10:30 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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watch great hand # 10....... player opening in about your position has AQ suited..... and against an under pair. It's really similar to your situation (except the chip stacks).
 
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Wed Jun 15, 2011, 02:42 AM
(#5)
Deleted user
Dont open limp its a mantra that every one should learn.

That said villain is making a aggressive play but at the same time he has a chance to get Heads up or most likely get a fold out of you preflop.You have 2 short stacks and they will be going allin soon which will screw him over and leave him short as well.
He only has to really get by one player since I doubt the blinds or button are calling with their stack sizes.

I have shoved 22 live enough time getting short stacked to realize that its not always a bad play as people might think.
 
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Wed Jun 15, 2011, 12:56 PM
(#6)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
you really need to be raising or folding preflop.
The only time you want to limp in is from the blinds, or with a really speculative hand with 4+ already in the pot, especially early.

I'd have raised to 750, they'd have most likely pushed and you needed to call. It's the classic race situation. You're going to win 1 of 2 of these, and you're going to lose 1 of 2 of them.
Okay for the first time I can think of JW you posted something I'm going to have to disagree with here...

I don't get the logic of a 3x bet here at all. You've completely committed yourself by raising 750 here to calling any raises after you act,so why not use what equity you have to it's fullest advantage and be the first aggressor in the hand and do it all the way?

I guess what I'm saying is that on a stack of 1933 chips putting 750 of them in the middle means that I'm putting all of them in the middle in this hand to ANY pre-flop action at that point anyway,so I would want to apply maximum pressure. That means a jam. M3 is push or fold time to me,no half measures allowed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted user View Post
Dont open limp its a mantra that every one should learn.

That said villain is making a aggressive play but at the same time he has a chance to get Heads up or most likely get a fold out of you preflop.You have 2 short stacks and they will be going allin soon which will screw him over and leave him short as well.
He only has to really get by one player since I doubt the blinds or button are calling with their stack sizes.

I have shoved 22 live enough time getting short stacked to realize that its not always a bad play as people might think.

Yeah I agree on the villain's shove with the 3's here as well Cookies. Look Plaws,you gave him no reason to slow down when you limped. You're telling him that you're aren't in love with your hand,so why wouldn't he play back at you hard?

If that's me holding the 33 here,with that stack,and it's checked to me I'm open-shoving. Someone limping ahead of me is not going to dissuade me one iota. Now had you open-shoved then I have to go to my reads on you (provided I have any) and decide if you're shoving a pair (in which case I'm pretty much certain to be crushed) or a hand like AK,AQ,KQ.Ax or whatever. And since I'm basically flipping the same odds against 76 as I would be on AK then my play on the 3's would be entirely based off that read---does the villain have a pair or not.

PSO and the parameters of the scoring system may make me fold 33 in this spot but in a cash MTT if I think I'm flipping then I'm rolling the dice in this spot every time,given the level and my stack size and the stacks of the rest of the table and the plays that they're likely to be making in the current rotation.

Open limping was effectively the same as a pass here Plaws. Make the opponent have to think on his play in regards to you at least. Your limp put him in a position of really having to consider his hand only,so an easier process for him. Never make things easier for your opponent(s).
 
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Wed Jun 15, 2011, 01:11 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
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good point Mox. Here was my reasoning.

Was thinking PSO... and that blind level may/may not be at even points. If wasn't at even points, then if I didn't hit an A or Q, then could fold... play a few more hands and get to '+' points.

if you're guaranteed that you're in positive points range, then I agree with shoving first.
 
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Wed Jun 15, 2011, 01:21 PM
(#8)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
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Yeah, this is a super easy open shove preflop. You have 8 BBs and there's 2.5 in the pot.

And AQ is not a hand you should consider open limping. It's too strong to limp but too weak to trap.
 
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Wed Jun 15, 2011, 01:22 PM
(#9)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Meh,yeah I get the PSO angle for sure and figured that's why you would throw the 3x bet scenario up there. Just at Level 7 I'm close enough to + points that being in the +2/3 point to -2/3 point range was always a wash in my mind anyway so I'm playing to get beyond that level at this stage (that's just me of course).

Now were it later in the month and a couple points here or there can make a big difference then Hell,I may even be folding the AQ here.

And we've ALL been there done that...

And now it's off to the golf course. Already played 18 this morning,man since we got the boot on Stars I'm getting in like 6-10 rounds a week,LOL.

Rocking a serious farmer's tan.
 
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Wed Jun 15, 2011, 01:26 PM
(#10)
JWK24's Avatar
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Posts: 24,832
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Mox, the other thing I've seen is that without the US players, it takes alot longer in the PSO's to get to even points and to get to the $$. ex: it used to be that ITM hit at 300/600 to 500/1k.... it now normally takes an extra 2-3 blind levels to hit it. Same for even points.

I'm glad someone's able to play. Every day I want to get 18 set up, we get thunderstorms.... every day it's nice.... busy and can't get out of it. Other than the 4 day outing (1 was washed out), I've got a whopping 1 round in.
 
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Wed Jun 15, 2011, 01:27 PM
(#11)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
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Sorry JWK, but I disagree. If you're gonna raise less than a shove here, make it a minraise. A 3x raise will not get you one more fold than a minraise. Plus a minraise if called one way gives you a potsize bet on the flop, which may be enough to make someone fold a bricked low pair or KJ that could beat you.
 
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Wed Jun 15, 2011, 01:29 PM
(#12)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oriholic View Post
Sorry JWK, but I disagree. If you're gonna raise less than a shove here, make it a minraise. A 3x raise will not get you one more fold than a minraise. Plus a minraise if called one way gives you a potsize bet on the flop, which may be enough to make someone fold a bricked low pair or KJ that could beat you.
good point Ori, I'll agree with that. Didn't think of the min raise, as it's something I normally don't do... great example of where it could work, that's for sure.
 
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Wed Jun 15, 2011, 06:34 PM
(#13)
PLaws62's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 329
so would you play A K,or AQ with the same respect as a pair of Aces or Kings,i think hanging on for points has been a bigger worry than playing the strength of some of the hands,with some of the hands i have seen ,i had a discusion with a player last night she played threes then said wshe was playing to win,i think we all are doing that ,but should the thinking of high pair change to any pair,i know i have played KK AA wrong but have changed that and resluts have changed but i have had a few more minus,seems there is a trade offf
 

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