Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Poker Education & Beginners Questions / Old Hand Analysis Section /

Late-stage bluff against large stack

 
Old
Default
Late-stage bluff against large stack - Wed Jun 15, 2011, 11:03 AM
(#1)
jf70's Avatar
Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 88
BronzeStar


I'd just been moved to a new table and I had been leaking blinds for a while. Two pretty big stacks to my left, which wasn't ideal, but I thought it was worth attempting a blind steal with my A7. One guy calls and the flop comes Q24; he checks, I make a c-bet - a little weak, but I doubted he would call without at least a pair - and he flat calls almost instantly. I didn't bet the turn because I suspected a Q with a medium/low kicker, or a medium pocket pair, and I knew I could bluff the second out but possibly not the first. I was also a little scared of slowplay here (plus the speed of his calls and checks!) - it's easy to bury yourself by making successive bets/bluffs on every street - and his stack was so big, the pot already fairly large, that I figured he might even call an all-in bet.

Ultimately we checked to the river and he showed TT, which more or less made sense, and I was left wondering if I could or should have played the hand differently. Could I have won it? Should I have not c-bet the flop, or made a larger bet on the turn?
 
Old
Default
Wed Jun 15, 2011, 12:51 PM
(#2)
Deleted user
You really only have one spot that you could bluff and its the turn,problem is it is not another face card.
You will find a lot of newer players will check/call with one over on the board,even more so if its a Q or J on the board.People that cant read hands are not going to fold when you make some bluff because they are not seeing what you are trying to tell them.

I would have folded A7os and waited a few more orbits to catch a better hand.
To often a worse player will call you with A8 or A9 and have you out kicked.

Bluff less and see how that works out for you.
Slowly add a bluff or two against certain styles and you will get a idea of who folds and who doesnt.
 
Old
Default
Wed Jun 15, 2011, 12:56 PM
(#3)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
Well your flop C-bet, while really tiny, was perfect size for setting you up for a turn shove, where if any good scare card comes off you can represent. What good cards can come here? A, K, spade, 6 maybe. That 5 isn't great as only A3 and 36 got there. 33 has a draw and 67 picks up a draw. You've also picked up a draw and your ace is probably good if it hits. With what stands to be a 7-out draw and a pot size bet remaining you might consider shoving it in here. If he folds here about 40% of the time this shove is +EV. If you wait to the river to shove and represent a 3, then the shove would have to work about 50% of the time. I'd probably still go for it though, because calling a 30k shove out of an 86k stack with anything less than top/top is a really hard decision.

We still need to be able to range our opponent here. What hands does he have that will fold to a shove? What hands does he have that will call a shove? Also, what's his style? For instance I will often fold top pair where loose players might call 2nd pair. We need info on this to have an idea of where his fold/call line is. We know we're beat, but can we get him to fold?

Still, you gotta really know what you're doing before trying to bluff the big stack.

And yeah, check out your stack size. Really no need to get involved with this hand. If the blinds are super nitty you could raise pre hoping to get all folds, but honestly I'd rather do it with some small suited cards as I can make them fold worse a lot, especially on the flop.

Last edited by oriholic; Wed Jun 15, 2011 at 01:10 PM..
 
Old
Default
Wed Jun 15, 2011, 01:21 PM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,783
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
with 18BB left, A7o is a muck for me. If I'm going to play a pot with a weak ace, it needs to have a straight possible with it... which this one does not.

You've got plenty of chips left to find alot better situation to get your chips into.

During tourneys, you're going to have stretches where you go card dead for awhile (probably what happened when you said you were leaking blinds). When that happens, trying to force a hand that you shouldn't be playing... especially bluffing with it, is almost always a recipe for disaster. I had one stretch in a live tourney once that I basically didn't play a hand for SIX hours straight... and online, I've had over 2.5 hr stretches the same way. If you've got chips, then don't force it... wait for the cards to turn (or your chip stack gets low enough that you push preflop, instead of bluffing).
 
Old
Default
Wed Jun 15, 2011, 01:50 PM
(#5)
jf70's Avatar
Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 88
BronzeStar
Cool thanks for your help. I think the consensus is more or less not to play this at all preflop, which makes sense I guess, and although it is psychologically hard to keep folding, it probably would've been the right strategy.

I ended up coming 6th in this tourney though out of a field of 1800 or so, which I'm pretty proud of, even if they were mostly donks.

Also, ISeeCookies, lol about the bluffing less.. I feel like my bluffing strategy isn't too bad. I mean this tourney I was super-tight, like 14/6 tight over the first 120 hands, and as a small stack I basically didn't steal blinds the entire final table (I had 70K and the chip leader had 1M lol). I guess it's just a bit of an unlucky situation; if he calls the pfr and calls the flop you either shove the turn and hope to get lucky or resign yourself to checking.

The good thing was, even though this little hand took out a big chunk of my stack, I came back quite strong. It's the advantage with a field like this, that you can accept a fairly large loss knowing that you'll have lots of opportunities to make more chips later on. That's why I didn't shove, even knowing that it might be +eV -- the risk of being called and falling out seemed too great.
 
Old
Default
Wed Jun 15, 2011, 04:54 PM
(#6)
Deleted user
Nobodys bluffing is perfect and tight players tend to think people should fold to them solely based on the fact that they havent played a hand in a hour.
From my experience it is easier to pick off a tight player bluffing than a maniac.
So take it for whatever you like,was just a thought.
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com