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Bad Fold?

 
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Bad Fold? - Thu Jun 23, 2011, 07:15 PM
(#1)
SlycatA8's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 6
BronzeStar
MEKO(SB) $14.79 - VP:47 PFR:0 AF:0.6 W:24|40 STL:0|50 3B:0| CB:|60 Hands:43
ShipSinker(BB) $74.28 - VP:23 PFR:5 AF:Inf. W:22|0 STL:0|50 3B:9| CB:100|50 Hands:43
Me(UTG) $55.55 - VP:13 PFR:13 AF:5.0 W:75|100 STL:0| 3B:0| CB:100| Hands:40
CBRider(MP) $31.31 - VP:5 PFR:2 AF:Inf. W:0| STL: 3B:0| CB:100|100 Hands:43
defishman(MP) $26.05 - VP:8 PFR:8 AF:0.5 W:0| STL:100| 3B:0| CB:0| Hands:13
dijalis(MP) $15.28 - VP:15 PFR:4 AF:Inf. W:13|0 STL:33|0 3B:0| CB:100|50 Hands:47
Math is Hard(LP) $7.75 - VP:43 PFR:0 AF:0.5 W:17|0 STL: 3B:0| CB:|67 Hands:14
JohnnyBoy53(CO) $25.15 - VP:30 PFR:13 AF:5.0 W:25|100 STL:40|100 3B:0| CB:100|0 Hands:30
reraise(BTN) $28.40 - VP:17 PFR:13 AF:Inf. W:0| STL:0|100 3B:0| CB:100| Hands:24


Pre Flop: Me(UTG) with [Ah,Kh]
Me(UTG) raises 0.75, CBRider(MP) folds, defishman(MP) folds, dijalis(MP) folds, Math is Hard(LP) calls 0.75, JohnnyBoy53(CO) calls 0.75, reraise(BTN) folds, MEKO(SB) calls 0.65, ShipSinker(BB) folds

Pre flop I like being in the hand with Meko this is my atm and I hadn't really had any experience with other two.

Flop: (7d,Td,As) (4 players)
MEKO(SB) checks, Me(MP) bets 2.75, Math is Hard(MP) calls 2.75, JohnnyBoy53(LP) raises 9.50, MEKO(SB) folds, Me(MP) folds, Math is Hard(MP) calls 4.25

I flop TPTK and I choose to donk out which is my normal line in this situation trying to get as much value from the loose calls. I get called no surprise and then a big re-raise. I tanked and then setted that I was probably losing to two pair or a set and folded.

Turn: Kc

River: 7h (2 players)



Final:
Returns 2.50 to JohnnyBoy53(CO)
Math is Hard(LP) shows [9h,8h]
JohnnyBoy53(CO) shows [7s,9s]
JohnnyBoy53(CO) wins 19

Last edited by SlycatA8; Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 07:24 PM..
 
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Thu Jun 23, 2011, 08:17 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
I'd have figured they had at least a diamond draw, two pair, big A or a set. If they've got a set or A 10, you're way behind, if they have the diamond draw, then you're at best a 2-1 fav, if they've got AQ or AJ, then you're way ahead.

That's a tough fold, but when they show their cards, it was the correct move, as you'd have lost the hand.

I'd be making a note on the 78h player for sure and try to find their table in the future, as you'll make $$ in the long run off of them if they will chase like that!
 
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Thu Jun 23, 2011, 09:11 PM
(#3)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
If you're the preflop raiser it's not donking the flop when you bet.

Obviously bet the flop as you have top pair/top kicker and can get value from a lot worse. When CO raises you have a dilemma. He seems to be fairly aggressive, so he can definitely have a lot worse than you here. The HJ appears to be very loose and passive based on your few hands you've seen.

Now let's look at the board: AT7 You have THE top pair top kicker. Not AJ on a J high board... you have no fear of overpairs, and AA is super unlikely the way the hand has been played. A set is possible as is AT, but pretty unlikely. Straight and flush draws abound here.

You have a good hand, but the kind that doesn't like big multiway pots. You know that if you call here you're going to have to play for stacks anyway. So you really only have two options here: shove or fold?

Your hand is almost certainly best right now. There are so many draws in this guy's range. Straight draws, flush draws, pair+draws, gutshot draws with overcards, even weaker aces, and yeah, 77, TT, AT, J7 and even A7 are all possibilities. Still against this range I'd gladly get it in.

Against tight players who won't raise with less than a set obviously you can fold, but in this situation top-top is almost always good. Also, don't pay attention to the super passive terrible shortstack. His stack does not matter in this pot.

If we didn't have reads I wouldn't think it's a bad fold, but with the information and stack sizes, I think you should shove.

Quote:
That's a tough fold, but when they show their cards, it was the correct move, as you'd have lost the hand.
Results oriented much?
 
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?? - Thu Jun 23, 2011, 09:14 PM
(#4)
monkeyskunk4's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,818
Well ure a better man than me- im not folding there- im putting him on a diamond draw- and shippin it !!!
 
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Fri Jun 24, 2011, 12:55 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
It's a really tough spot, I think it's very close at the decision point. SPR is over 7 vs. this villain, so I don't think I generally want to commit. It's tougher because he may be trying to isolate the short stacked fish with a hand like AQ/AJ. I think that dynamic makes it closer, but am generally ok with the fold. After seeing what he made this flop raise with though, in the same spot in the future I would get it in against him (as we now know his range is significantly wider than just hands crushing us, big draws, and AQ/AJ, but also includes many other hands we're crushing and our over all equity is much better than we expected in this spot, swaying what was a close commitment decision to an easily profitable one).

Dave
 
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Fri Jun 24, 2011, 12:59 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oriholic View Post
Quote:
That's a tough fold, but when they show their cards, it was the correct move, as you'd have lost the hand.
Results oriented much?
+1

Actually, the exact opposite is true. Fundemental theorem... if we could see their cards, folding would be the WORST move as our equity is very good.
 

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