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How to build my bankroll in an effective way

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How to build my bankroll in an effective way - Sat Jun 25, 2011, 12:40 AM
(#1)
PKRReborn's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 7
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I currently have a bankroll of about $230, having placed 6th in a 5k Guarantee with about 4000 players in it. I am not really sure of the best way to increase my bankroll, as I am mainly a MTT player and feel as if they are a bit of a dice roll, especially the ones over 600 players (under 600 and I usually manage to at least place in the money). What would you guys recommend? I feel as if I do have a firm grasp of the game, although I seem to have the problem of overestimating the skills of some players and giving them credit for hands and bluffs that they do not have or are not making.

Cheers guys.

PKRReborn
 
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Sat Jun 25, 2011, 05:18 AM
(#2)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
It is a really good question PKR and my best advice is to not run before you can walk.

I am around the same spot as yourself and have set myself a target of building a bankroll of 1000$ and then evaluating the best way forward. I play the PSO League because I feel I can achieve 50$ with less than 30 tournies a month quite consistently, a 20% increase in your bank roll is not to be sniffed at and it is "free". If I am in a decent position with a week to go I will up that quota to try and make the top 10 and the bigger money.

I play a few MTTs but find that it is a lottery and you need a lot of luck to cash big. I prefer to play min cash 1/2cent and 50/50s (until they put the fee up), simply because I can play for a relatively short period of time and walk away when I want to. I have not tried any of the SNG format, mainly because of time constraints but would welcome any input from anyone else who plays them as to the best and most time efficient. Otherwise I just play freerolls but the number available on the German version of the site have decreased considerably.

With it being summer, time is at a premium, so realistically it will be the end of the year before I hit 1000$. When I hit that target, I will consider moving up levels. I will just keep playing it simple until I get there.

Good luck,

TC
 
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Sat Jun 25, 2011, 06:04 AM
(#3)
ronh1967's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKRReborn View Post
I currently have a bankroll of about $230, having placed 6th in a 5k Guarantee with about 4000 players in it. I am not really sure of the best way to increase my bankroll, as I am mainly a MTT player and feel as if they are a bit of a dice roll, especially the ones over 600 players (under 600 and I usually manage to at least place in the money). What would you guys recommend? I feel as if I do have a firm grasp of the game, although I seem to have the problem of overestimating the skills of some players and giving them credit for hands and bluffs that they do not have or are not making.

Cheers guys.

PKRReborn
the best way to build bankroll is usually 1table sit and goes,the reason to this is that they pay 3ppl and have only 9or10 players in them and if you can get good results on a consistant basis in them you can possibly make the battle off the planets leader board and make extra money placing in the top so many spots at the level you compete at,theres a leader board for all buyin ranges in a low and high orbit catagories 20 tournies low orbit and 100 tournies high orbit,and also an added bonus if you can get inthe top in your level you get a ticket to there monthley free roll which i think is a 50k free roll but im not sure on that,theres also the 50,50 that top mention that pay the top 5 with 10 players in them,you get your entry fee back plus so much per100 chips
hope this is a help good luck at the tables
 
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?? - Sat Jun 25, 2011, 07:22 AM
(#4)
monkeyskunk4's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,818
I see that you have only played 23 MTTs- -- this will give u an idea-- gl--

http://www.cardschat.com/build-your-...r-bankroll.php
 
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Sat Jun 25, 2011, 03:18 PM
(#5)
PKRReborn's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyskunk4 View Post
I see that you have only played 23 MTTs- -- this will give u an idea-- gl--

http://www.cardschat.com/build-your-...r-bankroll.php
How do you know I only played 23 MTTs? Just interested. I think this is definately true on pokerstars, but adding in Fulltilt I would say I'm way over 100 (although I have been much more successful on pokerstars)
 
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Sat Jun 25, 2011, 03:23 PM
(#6)
PKRReborn's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topthecat View Post
It is a really good question PKR and my best advice is to not run before you can walk.

I am around the same spot as yourself and have set myself a target of building a bankroll of 1000$ and then evaluating the best way forward. I play the PSO League because I feel I can achieve 50$ with less than 30 tournies a month quite consistently, a 20% increase in your bank roll is not to be sniffed at and it is "free". If I am in a decent position with a week to go I will up that quota to try and make the top 10 and the bigger money.

I play a few MTTs but find that it is a lottery and you need a lot of luck to cash big. I prefer to play min cash 1/2cent and 50/50s (until they put the fee up), simply because I can play for a relatively short period of time and walk away when I want to. I have not tried any of the SNG format, mainly because of time constraints but would welcome any input from anyone else who plays them as to the best and most time efficient. Otherwise I just play freerolls but the number available on the German version of the site have decreased considerably.

With it being summer, time is at a premium, so realistically it will be the end of the year before I hit 1000$. When I hit that target, I will consider moving up levels. I will just keep playing it simple until I get there.

Good luck,

TC
I am also going to start playing the PSO league, because I have just discovered it and think its a great bankroll builder. I seem to do ok in the MTTs, mainly because they are the kind of play that suits me, a little bit of risk is needed to do well in them and you can't always make the safe plays. I find this makes it a lot more exciting for me.

They are putting the fee up for 50-50s? To what?

I often play $7 sit n gos (single table) and I think that they are actually one of the best ways to build your bankroll. Yes you have to invest maybe two hours (unless it is a turbo table) but you are looking at very decent ROI if you make top 3 (which is only top 3rd of the field, a huge difference to top 10th in the MTTs)

I don't usually play micro level cash games as I find it very very boring grinding out for a max return of a few dollars, I would say if you are really serious about building your bankroll you should start to play some SNGs at the $3.50 level maybe to start. If you come first you get a ROI of around 400% because the top prize is $14.
 
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?? - Sat Jun 25, 2011, 03:27 PM
(#7)
monkeyskunk4's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,818
every thing u play is tracked- please dont tell people tha u REGULARLY cash- in mttts-- when it aint the truth-- -- your ITM % is 7-- gl--- ciao
 
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Sat Jun 25, 2011, 03:36 PM
(#8)
PKRReborn's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyskunk4 View Post
every thing u play is tracked- please dont tell people tha u REGULARLY cash- in mttts-- when it aint the truth-- -- your ITM % is 7-- gl--- ciao
I think you will find that my poker stars ITM % is higher than that, yes I used to be a bit of a donk, no I don't think I am at all anymore. I play proper poker now, taking everything into account, and since I started playing well I have been in profit.
 
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?? - Sat Jun 25, 2011, 03:43 PM
(#9)
monkeyskunk4's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,818
I dont call people names- just provided you with a link- use at your own discretion-- and get in the loop-- u lucked out - in a tourney- and now have a BR- choose wisely-- and gl--
 
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Sun Jun 26, 2011, 02:22 AM
(#10)
0HighTimes0's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 840
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...-Building-Tips

jf70 , someone that's been there done that id say
 
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Sun Jun 26, 2011, 03:12 AM
(#11)
pokerstar671's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,206
Buy into the sunday million
 
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Sun Jun 26, 2011, 04:34 PM
(#12)
PKRReborn's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 7
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Originally Posted by pokerstar671 View Post
Buy into the sunday million
Lol bit expensive for me!
 
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Sun Jun 26, 2011, 05:25 PM
(#13)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
PKR monk was looking at your stats on OPR (On-line Poker Rankings---www.pokerrankings.com) and by what IS tracked there he's right on his call on your numbers,at least here on Stars.

Now OPR does NOT track everything,far from it. It only tracks MTT and SNG's with 36 runners and up,so no 1,2 or 3 table SNG's are recorded. No HU plays. And no freerolls or FPP plays either. But if your focus IS on MTT's and Multi-table SNG's it's a good tracking site.

To me what I see of your numbers my take is that it's a very small sample and you DID make your"nut" ,so to speak, on a deep run in 1 tournament (congrats on that BTW ). That's the goal in MTT's IMO,make deep runs and not sweat your ITM % too much. Now I would want to be somewhat higher than 7% but I wouldn't want to be so focused on ITM% that I'm basically just piling up min-cashes as that is a LOSING formula.The thing I would try to focus on if I were you is that your Early and Early- Middle out %'s are very high (you'll see these in the middle top right corner of your chart next to ITM finishes). And your Middle-Late and Late finishes are very low. This tells me that you may be playing a little too aggressively early on when the blinds don't warrant it. You have to find that "happy zone" where you're giving yourself a good chance to see more bubbles,which will lead to more ITM's,which will lead to more deep runs--while not punting on the chances to chip up big early and have a big stack so you can go aggressively after that FT run. Try to recognize when to open up and when to throttle it down a little,but as a good rule of thumb you should always err on playing MTT's to win.

Now given the high variance factor that is intrinsic in MTT's you could easily fritter away your BR were you to hit a dry spell. And in MTT's that's very easy to do. So what you need is to find a more consistent money maker than MTT's,one that while it won't see the same return that one big finish in a given MTT can net will allow you to grind your roll up more steadily than strictly MTT play will.

On that thought I would look around at the SNG options on the level that you should be playing on a $250ish BR.

Conservative BR principles dictate that you shouldn't often have more than 1-2% of your BR at stake in any one MTT so at $250 your ceiling should be $5.00,and looking at OPR you are following that line so good job.And yes it's perfectly okay to step a little outside the box on this from time to time,but as a rule of thumb it's not a bad one. (Try to remember one very basic fact of on-line poker---90% of players LOSE money. And many of them could be winning players but they have poor BR discipline.)

Now many players say that because of the better odds in SNG's you can (should) play at a slightly higher % than you would in MTT's---say 3-5% of your BR per SNG.Personally I think you should scale DOWN on the SNG entry fee sizes because you should be playing a much heavier volume of these than MTT's. If I were at $2.50-$5.00 entry fee sizes in my MTT's I would probably be looking at the $1-2 levels in SNG's. Then look to grind a good size sample of them.

But FIRST if you haven't played these before,or played them successfully when you did,you should research them. Look the games over by peeking in on some of each being played to try and get a feel for how the games tend to flow. This may lead to you finding 1 or 2 that look like a good fit for your game. Also any games that you find that interest you google them and read on strategies that you'll find on them. They are lots of options at every level--Heads Up games,single table games,both regular and 50/50's, and multi-table games form 18-400+ runners.

If you can achieve enough success in these to cover the costs of the entry fees to your MTT plays then every time you sit in an MTT you are essentially "freerolling" it,which will let you focus the attention on what it should be in an MTT---running deep.

Hope this was helpful.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Sun Jun 26, 2011 at 06:03 PM..
 
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Sun Jun 26, 2011, 11:59 PM
(#14)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
Now many players say that because of the better odds in SNG's you can (should) play at a slightly higher % than you would in MTT's---say 3-5% of your BR per SNG.Personally I think you should scale DOWN on the SNG entry fee sizes because you should be playing a much heavier volume of these than MTT's. If I were at $2.50-$5.00 entry fee sizes in my MTT's I would probably be looking at the $1-2 levels in SNG's. Then look to grind a good size sample of them.
I like your posts. I like you. You spend a lot of time explaining things to those that are starting their journey and generally talk a lot of sense. But with this one I really couldn't disagree more. I just don't get the correlation you make with number of games being played dictating the % of your bankroll to be staked. Type of game and what you require from your BR are the only two factors that I believe you should consider. The "safety net" doesn't need to be tweaked because you are playing ten a day rather than one every ten days. Unless of course your objective (and expectation) is to lose your money over as prolonged a period as possible. And if that's the case there's no requirement for BRM whatsoever, as you've already decided that your money is being used for entertainment rather than an investment.
 
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Mon Jun 27, 2011, 01:50 AM
(#15)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Haha,D-man I swear when I was typing up this post and got to this part I wasn't even sure I should include it or not (that's why I tried to deflect a little by front-loading it with "Personally") and was thinking to myself "If D sees this he's gonna poop all over it".

No worries man,you know we're cool and I have much respect for you. And for anyone reading what I originally posted and D-mans take on it let me say for the record that I agree with his take wholeheartedly that what I posted is non-intuitive within the realm of Bankroll Building. I'm trying to show a more (overly? meh that could be said as well...) conservative line to fit within the realm of Bankroll Management.

If as a player you feel comfortable at the game(s) you're looking to grind on a certain level then by all means take the somewhat more aggressive line on buy-ins. If you're feeling your way and trying to find the game or games that are the right fit for you at a certain level then I would advocate a more conservative approach at first.

Remember if you're thinking about the money when you sit down then you'll never loosen up and just play your best poker. So play what is comfortable to you.

But yeah,I should have been more clear in my reasoning for the earlier statement for sure. Thanks D.

Oh and one more thing for anyone reading this...

Look up D-man's the schedule for Live Training and get your butts in there if at all possible. If there are 5 people on here who I've personally learned more from by watching them and reading their posts I don't know who they would be.
 

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