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Final day misery

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Final day misery - Thu Jun 30, 2011, 03:22 PM
(#1)
Mikey_hba's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 45
BronzeStar


I know these guys were shoving with any mad hand so i thought i would take the risk and look at the disgrace of this hand.
 
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.... - Thu Jun 30, 2011, 03:46 PM
(#2)
ChiltonMafia's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 164
it doesnt surprise me at all bro. GL next month and wp this month
 
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Thu Jun 30, 2011, 06:53 PM
(#3)
RCSDStar's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 49
BronzeStar
AK off at best is 50% to win. Versus 1 other player, that is not bad. But you had to know that they would both be calling you therefore really reducing your odds to take the pot. You were about 46% to win preflop, but your 2 opponents combined win percentage would be above your 46%. In other words, you were more likely to lose than win.

Yeah, that's exactly how I want to get my chips in the pot. You had control of the pot size yet decided to push with, like I said, at best a 50/50 proposition. From my view, you are no better than any of the donk play you complain about.
 
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.... - Thu Jun 30, 2011, 08:18 PM
(#4)
ChiltonMafia's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCSDStar View Post
AK off at best is 50% to win. Versus 1 other player, that is not bad. But you had to know that they would both be calling you therefore really reducing your odds to take the pot. You were about 46% to win preflop, but your 2 opponents combined win percentage would be above your 46%. In other words, you were more likely to lose than win.

Yeah, that's exactly how I want to get my chips in the pot. You had control of the pot size yet decided to push with, like I said, at best a 50/50 proposition. From my view, you are no better than any of the donk play you complain about.
Itis final day of league he has a gr8 month and was trying too make a push up the league. dont jduge people int he league when u dnt know where they are, and u aint even in the league so who u calling a donk. keep quiet
 
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Thu Jun 30, 2011, 10:02 PM
(#5)
Mikey_hba's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 45
BronzeStar
Thanks mafia mate but don't worry let him say what he wants every one has there opinion even if they are disrespectful and wrong
 
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Fri Jul 01, 2011, 12:32 AM
(#6)
ssuglia's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,393
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiltonMafia View Post
Itis final day of league he has a gr8 month and was trying too make a push up the league. dont jduge people int he league when u dnt know where they are, and u aint even in the league so who u calling a donk. keep quiet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey_hba View Post
Thanks mafia mate but don't worry let him say what he wants every one has there opinion even if they are disrespectful and wrong
I think the important lesson here is to never let logic and mathematics get in the way of a good ol' fashioned "it's rigged!" whinefest.

zzzzzzzzzz
 
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... - Fri Jul 01, 2011, 07:28 AM
(#7)
ChiltonMafia's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssuglia View Post
I think the important lesson here is to never let logic and mathematics get in the way of a good ol' fashioned "it's rigged!" whinefest.

zzzzzzzzzz
I see your still trolling forums, i would probably just live life if i couldn't play instead of trolling forums.
 
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... - Fri Jul 01, 2011, 07:29 AM
(#8)
ChiltonMafia's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey_hba View Post
Thanks mafia mate but don't worry let him say what he wants every one has there opinion even if they are disrespectful and wrong
Welcome Mikey.

They disrespect simply because there american, and cant do anthing else apart from troll forums. bless them
 
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Fri Jul 01, 2011, 01:27 PM
(#9)
ssuglia's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,393
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiltonMafia View Post
I see your still trolling forums, i would probably just live life if i couldn't play instead of trolling forums.
Who said I couldn't play?

zzzzzzzzzz
 
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NOT a Bad Beat... - Fri Jul 01, 2011, 05:10 PM
(#10)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey_hba View Post


I know these guys were shoving with any mad hand so i thought i would take the risk and look at the disgrace of this hand.
I'm not going to get into a Flame War with you and Mafia, you can take what I'm going to impart here or leave it I could personally care as less this is intended as much for people who may come in here and get dissuaded from actually learning how to play this game (and more pointedly learning how to play it within the parameters of the League which is a different kettle of fish altogether...).

You can post hands like this in the Bad Beat forum from now until Hell freezes over and it WILL NOT change the fact that this is not,in any way shape or form,a bad beat. And YOUR play is just as "disgraceful" in this hand as anything that followed. That's just the plain and simple truth of the situation. Here's why...

1. It's Level II :

Even if you take this hand down the chips you would have obtained guarantee you nothing insofar as making it to an ITM finish. Meanwhile since both players have you covered a miss here does guarantee you a spot on the rail.

2. Controlling the size of the pot :

You had TWO chances to do this and punted on both. A call here by you to the min-raise would not have been a bad play at all in PSO. You say they were both playing a wide range of hands,well if you flat here they have ZERO read on your hand strength and if they are indeed as loose as you say if the flop hits you big there's still a good chance that you can get one,or both,of them to double you post-flop.

Your re-pop was a solid play here,though the 5x the BB bet is larger than necessary. A 3x,or even 4x bet is a more standard line here. But once they re-fire just call and see what flops. It's obvious at that point that they are not going away pre-flop so that will most likely be the case post-flop as well.

3. The shove was absolutely terrible :

I don't care how bad they had been showing there is no way you should EVER be jamming with AK,suited or no, pre-flop in PSO for 50 BB's. Especially in Level II.

Don't think so? Well think on this---the hands that they turned over were about the absolute BEST you could have hoped for and the odds were STILL :

You-AcKh/46% As3h/15% 8d5c/36%

See that? Because he has 2 live cards the ugliest hand--85--actually had the 2nd best odds and was only 10% weaker than you. This is as good a pair of hands against your AKo as you can reasonably hope for and you're only 46% to win the hand.

What if just one of the villains would have has a pair,ANY pair? Here's the odds then--I'll make it 5's for the 85 hand first:

AcKh/35% 5d5c/55% As3h/7%

Hardly a world beater hand but you are not in very good shape against it at all.

Pairing the A3 instead hand doesn't make things much better for you:

AcKh/41% 8d5c/30% 3c3h/28%

As you can see that while they are possible hand combinations where you have the best odds there are NO hand combinations where you are any kind of a solid favorite to actually win the hand. And while the suckouts on both the turn and the river may be irritating I didn't post any odds post-flop in this hand because it's simply immaterial as once all money is in the middle and there is no decision process left in the hand odds become a moot point and what's going to come is what's going to come and you now have no control over it.

Now I've seen both you and Mafia make mention here that you were pushing hard because it was the end of the month and you felt that what was out there to try and attain was more important to you than the possible downside of backsliding to a lesser payout. That's a perfectly reasonable line to take in PSO. Been there done that myself. And if you have enough "cover" behind you on the last day and a higher level is attainable then I can make the argument that shipping ATC's at almost anytime CAN be a +EV play in PSO.

BUT if you do take that mindset and open up your range accordingly then be prepared to deal with the possible consequences that it could lead to. As happened here for instance.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Fri Jul 01, 2011 at 05:13 PM..
 
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Fri Jul 01, 2011, 05:20 PM
(#11)
Mikey_hba's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 45
BronzeStar
I totally agree with you there i think i was just frustrated that i slipped from 30th to 200 in the league so was almost playing with desperation to get back up. Your right about jamming there it was bad play given odds i had
 
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Fri Jul 01, 2011, 05:31 PM
(#12)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey_hba View Post
I totally agree with you there i think i was just frustrated that i slipped from 30th to 200 in the league so was almost playing with desperation to get back up. Your right about jamming there it was bad play given odds i had

That's fine Mikey. As long as you understand why you did it and accept the inherent risks then that's half the battle.

Always knowing where you stand in PSO and what your plan of battle should be on a given day in accordance to that is KEY to excelling in PSO. And it becomes much more amplified the last week for sure.

Good luck down the line and hope to be able to play against you sooner than later.
 
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Fri Jul 01, 2011, 07:49 PM
(#13)
ChiltonMafia's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
I'm not going to get into a Flame War with you and Mafia, you can take what I'm going to impart here or leave it I could personally care as less this is intended as much for people who may come in here and get dissuaded from actually learning how to play this game (and more pointedly learning how to play it within the parameters of the League which is a different kettle of fish altogether...).

You can post hands like this in the Bad Beat forum from now until Hell freezes over and it WILL NOT change the fact that this is not,in any way shape or form,a bad beat. And YOUR play is just as "disgraceful" in this hand as anything that followed. That's just the plain and simple truth of the situation. Here's why...

1. It's Level II :

Even if you take this hand down the chips you would have obtained guarantee you nothing insofar as making it to an ITM finish. Meanwhile since both players have you covered a miss here does guarantee you a spot on the rail.

2. Controlling the size of the pot :

You had TWO chances to do this and punted on both. A call here by you to the min-raise would not have been a bad play at all in PSO. You say they were both playing a wide range of hands,well if you flat here they have ZERO read on your hand strength and if they are indeed as loose as you say if the flop hits you big there's still a good chance that you can get one,or both,of them to double you post-flop.

Your re-pop was a solid play here,though the 5x the BB bet is larger than necessary. A 3x,or even 4x bet is a more standard line here. But once they re-fire just call and see what flops. It's obvious at that point that they are not going away pre-flop so that will most likely be the case post-flop as well.

3. The shove was absolutely terrible :

I don't care how bad they had been showing there is no way you should EVER be jamming with AK,suited or no, pre-flop in PSO for 50 BB's. Especially in Level II.

Don't think so? Well think on this---the hands that they turned over were about the absolute BEST you could have hoped for and the odds were STILL :

You-AcKh/46% As3h/15% 8d5c/36%

See that? Because he has 2 live cards the ugliest hand--85--actually had the 2nd best odds and was only 10% weaker than you. This is as good a pair of hands against your AKo as you can reasonably hope for and you're only 46% to win the hand.

What if just one of the villains would have has a pair,ANY pair? Here's the odds then--I'll make it 5's for the 85 hand first:

AcKh/35% 5d5c/55% As3h/7%

Hardly a world beater hand but you are not in very good shape against it at all.

Pairing the A3 instead hand doesn't make things much better for you:

AcKh/41% 8d5c/30% 3c3h/28%

As you can see that while they are possible hand combinations where you have the best odds there are NO hand combinations where you are any kind of a solid favorite to actually win the hand. And while the suckouts on both the turn and the river may be irritating I didn't post any odds post-flop in this hand because it's simply immaterial as once all money is in the middle and there is no decision process left in the hand odds become a moot point and what's going to come is what's going to come and you now have no control over it.

Now I've seen both you and Mafia make mention here that you were pushing hard because it was the end of the month and you felt that what was out there to try and attain was more important to you than the possible downside of backsliding to a lesser payout. That's a perfectly reasonable line to take in PSO. Been there done that myself. And if you have enough "cover" behind you on the last day and a higher level is attainable then I can make the argument that shipping ATC's at almost anytime CAN be a +EV play in PSO.

BUT if you do take that mindset and open up your range accordingly then be prepared to deal with the possible consequences that it could lead to. As happened here for instance.
i have 4 words for you, wind your neck in! pathetic post
 
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Fri Jul 01, 2011, 08:04 PM
(#14)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiltonMafia View Post
i have 4 words for you, wind your neck in! pathetic post
you stay classy Belter
 
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Fri Jul 01, 2011, 08:12 PM
(#15)
ssuglia's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,393
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiltonMafia View Post
i have 4 words for you, wind your neck in! pathetic post
Pathetic = correct?

zzzzzzzzzz
 
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Fri Jul 01, 2011, 08:15 PM
(#16)
ssuglia's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,393
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by roomik17 View Post
you stay classy Belter
If only us trolls could have half the class he does.
 
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Fri Jul 01, 2011, 09:37 PM
(#17)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiltonMafia View Post
i have 4 words for you, wind your neck in! pathetic post

So you're going to challenge me to a duel on XBOX now Belter?
 
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Fri Jul 01, 2011, 09:45 PM
(#18)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
How about a vintage sega match?
 
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Fri Jul 01, 2011, 09:50 PM
(#19)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
The only thing Belter/Mafia/etc. has that's "vintage" is his collection of belly button lint...
 

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