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An open appeal to the PSO Staff and League players

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An open appeal to the PSO Staff and League players - Sat Jul 02, 2011, 05:25 PM
(#1)
Origin40's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 41
Hi Guys - haven't been around here long, but these changes for July are no less of an earthquake, for what looked to be a promising venture by PSO/PS.

Please take a look at my blog post here, which explores some ideas for an alternative : http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/blogs/post/?id=14469

My fellow PSO League players who are equally puzzled by both the scope of, and rationale for these changes are urged to show their support and/or chip in with your own ideas.

Those haters who think I'm one of those crowd with a pram-sans-rattle, can kindly move on elsewhere and massage each others "members" while they pat each other on the back. It's players like you who probably sat on the forum petitioning for this system, which is exactly why it should change.

The ideas explored on my blog are a real effort to consider both PSO/PS's commercial interests, and retain the League's own value, whilst being mindful of the popular wish that the better league players should be better rewarded - just not to the kind of polar extremes that we have with the system for July.

Say NO! to the CSL (Crap-Shoot League)

Last edited by Origin40; Sat Jul 02, 2011 at 05:56 PM..
 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 05:35 PM
(#2)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
YOUR LINK COMES UP NOT FOUND

 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 05:56 PM
(#3)
Origin40's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 41
Edited the link in the OP - does it work now?
 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 06:28 PM
(#4)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
IT WORKS NOW
BUT YOU ONLY WANT COMMENTS FOR PEOPLE THAT AGREE WITH YOU
SO I'LL MOVE ALONG NOW
GOOD LUCK

 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 06:38 PM
(#5)
Origin40's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 41
Well, at least your honest. :P

I think the current system will destroy the reputation that PSO has been building, in all honesty. If you think that's cool - well, you think differently to my analytical mind (which tends to be focused on the longer term).

I don't necessarily want people to agree with me though - if you can provide a soundly reasoned and logical argument in support of the revised system we have for July....I'm all ears....
 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 06:47 PM
(#6)
Deleted user
You take exception to what they have done but outline almost the exact thing as what you want but with less restrictions.

July is open league for all August starts the tiered league,so its a little early to judge.

If people are unable to get to at least 1700 by end of the month I would question how deep their heads are buried in the sand.Take a look around,its pretty easy to see how to get points in this month without much hassle.
 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 06:52 PM
(#7)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin40 View Post
Well, at least your honest. :P

I think the current system will destroy the reputation that PSO has been building, in all honesty. If you think that's cool - well, you think differently to my analytical mind (which tends to be focused on the longer term).

I don't necessarily want people to agree with me though - if you can provide a soundly reasoned and logical argument in support of the revised system we have for July....I'm all ears....
IF I COULD PLAY I WOULD
I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE GIVEN IT A CHANCE YET
AS STAFF HAS SAID IF IT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED IT WILL BE
BUT NOT AFTER TWO DAYS
DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY POST THEIR WERE FOR CHANGE ??
SO I'LL WAIT AND SEE HOW IT ALL WORKS OUT
GOOD LUCK

 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 07:31 PM
(#8)
Origin40's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 41
Okay....lets pick it apart shall we?

The changes to the actual MTT scheduling in 4 hour increments. This was supposedly bought in to ensure that no single region had an advantage on timing.

Here's a surprise - the players at the top of the leaderboard are the same players who don't appear to work for living and can thus fit in 3 or 4 tournaments a day with ease. If anything, that worsens the situation.

With the June scheduling, I could probably play a couple of PSO MTTs per night on a week-night and not be too disadvantaged.

Now, I can play only 1, meaning the points obtained for playing will be worth relatively less than they were in June.

Let me just go over that again in case you missed it.....

Us early stage/still learning players who enjoyed this league as a test of skill are now pretty much discarded from PSO's strategic considerations, in favour of the multi-starred leeches who don't work and earn their money already playing poker.

Do you perhaps understand why that might be perceived by the majority as a shift towards elitism?

4 out of the current top 5 have 150+VPPs and some are associated with poker schools elsewhere - do you think they will participate or engage with the PSO community? I doubt that they will other than to crow and belittle us worker bees - so PSO's economy vs community model just took a hit.

Moving on to the "opening" or widening of entry.......

23,000+ league participants and rising. Seriously - how many of those do you think have or will even visit the PSO web portal? How many do you think even know of it's significance or the real rewards beyond the top 90 ITM finishers and their few bucks of free money?

We've gone from tournaments featuring an average field of 600+ players, to fields of 10k. Don't pretend that these are all playing with the league in mind.

Think about it. What would happen if we wiped out divisions in say, football so that the bruisers at Scunthorpe could break the shins of the likes of Rooney & Co every week just for fun? How long do you think the FA, or the clubs owners would tolerate that?

What we have now is a system that keeps the elitist ass-hats who earn a living playing poker, getting paid a bonus for participation in the PSO, while working class Joes like me and many others, have to negotiate the flak on the lower number of tournaments we can enter.

This in itself, places the higher end-of-month pay awards out of the reach of most PSO players who would previously have had a reasonable chance at employing skill to get there.

Now, the league has been firmly handed over to players who play for a living because they have the time to play in 3 or 4 tournaments a day, and will very likely take down the league as a direct result.

I'll say it again, just so you have another place to copy & paste into Google from : Elitism

Do you understand that yet?

Didn't think so....


In June, a good player who could make 2 tourney's per day could take a top 10 spot.

In July, I think you'll find that the only winners are likely to be good players who play for a living. Do you really, truly believe that a Poker SCHOOL Skills League should be opened up that far, that we allow semi-professional players to graze on what has now been put beyond the reach of the many good (but employed elsewhere, with responsibilities) players that were putting in serious competition for the good spots in last months league?

This restructuring changes the game completely and I would argue that if PSO is going to stick to the format, then they should abandon the learning material they provide and not try to pretend that this is any kind of schooling league that will help to improve players out there in real-money tournaments.

I could go further - but this would descend into a flame-war.

Cookies - the "lets wait and see" line is not a defence of the new system. Give me some solid reasons why or how this is a good series of changes, whilst also remembering that this site (and by association the league/tournaments) is a schooling site not intended for players with 4k+ bankrolls to support them already.

Otherwise move along and shove your next hand indiscriminately, whilst smiling at the inevitable loss.....

Last edited by Origin40; Sat Jul 02, 2011 at 07:43 PM..
 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 07:41 PM
(#9)
Origin40's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 41
PS: Just in case it wasn't obvious already - or you didn't bother to read....

My biggest concerns which I'd like to see PSO address are the removal of gated entry and the timings.

I don't disagree with a divisional system, but I think they have perhaps gone too far.

For sure, I'd like to see entry-gating back in place to ensure that the players we have in the league are actually playing with that in mind.

I'd also like to see either changes to the scheduling or a cap on the number of tournaments that can be entered in one day. On the new 4 hour cycle, I don't think a cap of 2 x MTT entries per day is unreasonable and would address concerns over the apparent grazing by semi-pro players who have all day to burn at home.

As it stands, I'd be extremely surprised to see a 20VPP player in the top 10 at the end of July.

Last edited by Origin40; Sat Jul 02, 2011 at 07:47 PM..
 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 07:41 PM
(#10)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin40 View Post
Okay....lets pick it apart shall we?

The changes to the actual MTT scheduling in 4 hour increments. This was supposedly bought in to ensure that no single region had an advantage on timing.

Here's a surprise - the players at the top of the leaderboard are the same players who don't appear to work for living and can thus fit in 3 or 4 tournaments a day with ease. If anything, that worsens the situation.

With the June scheduling, I could probably play a couple of PSO MTTs per night on a week-night and not be too disadvantaged.

Now, I can play only 1, meaning the points obtained for playing will be worth relatively less than they were in June.

Let me just go over that again in case you missed it.....

Us early stage/still learning players who enjoyed this league as a test of skill are now pretty much discarded from PSO's strategic considerations, in favour of the multi-starred leeches who don't work and earn their money already playing poker.

Do you perhaps understand why that might be perceived by the majority as a shift towards elitism?

4 out of the current top 5 have 150+VPPs and some are associated with poker schools elsewhere - do you think they will participate or engage with the PSO community? I doubt that they will other than to crow and belittle us worker bees - so PSO's economy vs community model just took a hit.

Moving on to the "opening" or widening of entry.......

23,000+ league participants and rising. Seriously - how many of those do you think have or will even visit the PSO web portal? How many do you think even know of it's significance or the real rewards beyond the top 90 ITM finishers and their few bucks of free money?

We've gone from tournaments featuring an average field of 600+ players, to fields of 10k. Don't pretend that these are all playing with the league in mind.

Think about it. What would happen if we wiped out divisions in say, football so that the bruisers at Scunthorpe could break the shins of the likes of Rooney & Co every week just for fun? How long do you think the FA, or the clubs owners tolerate that?

What we have now is a system that keeps the elitist ass-hats who earn a living playing poker, getting paid a bonus for participation in the PSO, while working class Joes like me and many others, have to negotiate the flak on the lower number of tournaments we can enter.

This in itself, places the higher end-of-month pay awards out of the reach of most PSO players who would previously have had a reasonable chance at employing skill to get there.

Now, the league has been firmly handed over to players who play for a living because they have the time to play in 3 or 4 tournaments a day, and will very likely take down the league as a direct result.

I'll say it again, just so you have another place to copy & paste into Google from : Elitism

Do you understand that yet?

Didn't think so....


In June, a good player who could make 2 tourney's per day could take a top 10 spot.

In July, I think you'll find that the only winners are likely to be good players who play for a living. Do you really, truly believe that a Poker SCHOOL Skills League should be opened up that far, that we allow semi-professional players to graze on what has now been put beyond the reach of the many good (but employed elsewhere, with responsibilities) players that were putting in serious competition for the good spots in last months league?

This restructuring changes the game completely and I would argue that if PSO is going to stick to the format, then they should abandon the learning material they provide and not try to pretend that this is any kind of schooling league that will help to improve players out there in real-money tournaments.

I could go further - but this would descend into a flame-war.

Cookies - the "lets wait and see" line is not a defence of the new system. Give me some solid reasons why or how this is a good series of changes, whilst also remembering that this site (and by association the league/tournaments) is a schooling site not intended for players with 4k+ bankrolls to support them already.

Otherwise move along and shove your next hand indiscriminately, whilst smiling at the inevitable loss.....
YEA I CAN SEE YOU DIDN'T WANT A FLAME WAR
SO GOOD LUCK

 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 07:41 PM
(#11)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
so you would like to see that anyone who plays here and is unemployed be banned? because they can play more than you? lol

If they are a better player than you they must also leave?

The people from the other leagues wont comment on here, other than to say they are better, so they should be banned?

And there are pros playing here and they should be banned? lol

you are delusional, and probably not very good... and feel if things went back to the old ways maybe you would make $3 and now you wont make any

I highly doubt there are many pros playing here... too much time for $5000, when they can play 50 -100 sitngoes a day and make that in a few days

Work on your game, and stop making excuses as to why you suck
 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 08:19 PM
(#12)
scorpion1367's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 123
i understand your frustration origin but i'm thinking you might want to check the top ten for the last month or so if I'm not mistaken and i could be....has happened once or twice....lol...there are players in it that average 80 and as high as 138 i believe tourneys played .....therefore i think that no matter what the schedule quantity is most likely going to be an issue for us working stiffs u just have to make the best of the system in place at present.After all the pso offers us all a chance to build our bankrolls with no risk....or an opportunity for free money no matter if it is 3 dollars or more.there are a few players such as top the cat who make 30 or less tournaments work into major money perhaps you could get him to give you some tips anyway....gl at the tables......scorp
 
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new pso crapshoot league - Sat Jul 02, 2011, 08:58 PM
(#13)
xeyoungblood's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 2
just read your blog m8,at last a sensible voice i notice p/stars put all the good comments first the sneaks.i entered a quiz wasted my time to play this league ,it was going to be my first month,so far played two finished top 500 both times one a day.just checked im way behind several players who have entered every tourney going and sat out in them played one maybe?very skillfull.drop the meagre cash prize every game .restore the core quiz eliminate the donks by 25%at least.it clearly favours the players who can sit at a keyboard all day /night and rack up points with poor placings.i work full time play one a day cash both daysskill league ?wheres the skill needed to enter all the tourney ?p/stars have mucked up big time and as usual all they care about sadly is bums on seatsim already looking for alternate sites and i know many doing same .wtg p/stars u messed up again
 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 09:56 PM
(#14)
Deleted user
I can see you are not one that embraces other peoples opinions so carry on and good luck to you.
Not wanting to get drawn into a flame war and that is clearly what you are trying to do.
 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 09:57 PM
(#15)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted user View Post
I can see you are not one that embraces other peoples opinions so carry on and good luck to you.
Not wanting to get drawn into a flame war and that is clearly what you are trying to do.
Whats wrong with a good old fashioned flame war?
 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 09:59 PM
(#16)
Deleted user
I get in trouble and your bad for egging me on!
 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 10:05 PM
(#17)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
LORD KNOWS I WOULD NEVER GET INVOLVED IN A FLAME WAR

AND DID YOU SEE THE GUY IN 5TH PLACE HAS ONLY 4 GAMES PLAYED

 
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Sat Jul 02, 2011, 10:07 PM
(#18)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
 
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Sun Jul 03, 2011, 05:33 AM
(#19)
Origin40's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 41
I'm not seeing what I'd class as a robust defence for the July changes.

Let me make one thing clear here. I'm not whining because I don't think I'll make a cash placing this month.

I made my 20 VPP last month easily and will do so this month. I'll also make the required points this month to climb above a lot of the junking/donk players and should have no problems breaking beyond 1700 pts.

Come back when you can make a sound/reasoned defence for these changes that has the principals of PSO's League foremost in mind please.

Berating me for what you "perceive" as whining, isn't casting yourselves in any better light and it's certainly not performing any kind of contributory function to this thread or the improvement of the league.

Did I say anywhere that this must change NOW or the sky will fall in and I'll throw my toys out of the pram and go elsewhere to play poker? No - Pokerstars has a huge variety of games that I do enjoy, but I'm taking issue with these changes for the PSO league.

I'd like to see PSO staff begin to prepare the ground for changes going forwards and the only way to really do that is to raise concerns here and have them discussed intelligently, so that we can perhaps move towards a league that feels like a Skill League again, rather than this open crap-shoot which has less to do with skill now than I have seen in ANY online poker tournament series.

There is a wealth of opposition from PSO regulars to these changes and I think I am right in highlighting the bad changes they've made.

Make your defence of the July changes, or join the opposition that wishes to see some meaning returned to this series. Don't try to attack me personally for expressing views that are quite widespread, by those who understand the forward impact of these swinging changes to the PSO League.

I'm not a man you want to enter a flame-war with.
 
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Sun Jul 03, 2011, 05:41 AM
(#20)
Origin40's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by roomik17 View Post
you are delusional, and probably not very good... and feel if things went back to the old ways maybe you would make $3 and now you wont make any

I highly doubt there are many pros playing here... too much time for $5000, when they can play 50 -100 sitngoes a day and make that in a few days

Work on your game, and stop making excuses as to why you suck

My game is solid. I certainly don't suck - keep your puerile opinion to yourself, paduwan.

Playing in micro/freeroll MTTs on PKR with average fields of 1200, I've made over 50 final tables over on that site in the first half of this year.

In the two weeks I was playing in the June PSO league, I made 3 final tables without having to try too hard at all.

I'd be interested to know exactly how you arrive at such a low opinion of a player who is clearly educated and pretty well versed in MTT strategy, even if I am only just starting out here on Pokerstars.

I suspect that you arrive at your uninformed view, purely by the content of this thread - which tells me that your ability to read people is exceptionally poor......

BTW : There is a difference between "pro" and "semi-pro" - give up the speed-reading chump, as it makes you look like a fool to misquote and misconstrue as wildly as you evidently do.

Last edited by Origin40; Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 05:45 AM..
 

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