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Is this right play

Is this right play - Sun Jul 03, 2011, 06:40 AM
Azaruna's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 11
Did I do the right thing on my stack with 2 all-ins before me?

PokerStars Game #63898769913: Tournament #427010492, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (400/800) - 2011/06/28 22:07:01 WET [2011/06/28 17:07:01 ET]
Table '427010492 401' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: laveta27 (30731 in chips)
Seat 2: 10 4 fisch (16010 in chips)
Seat 3: Azaruna (10882 in chips)
Seat 4: Sagit1 (17952 in chips)
Seat 5: benchmarking (7374 in chips)
Seat 6: Leufje (27529 in chips)
Seat 7: vinnerboy (16899 in chips)
Seat 8: bitxo27 (13032 in chips)
Seat 9: 88_mck_88 (39131 in chips)
laveta27: posts the ante 100
10 4 fisch: posts the ante 100
Azaruna: posts the ante 100
Sagit1: posts the ante 100
benchmarking: posts the ante 100
Leufje: posts the ante 100
vinnerboy: posts the ante 100
bitxo27: posts the ante 100
88_mck_88: posts the ante 100
benchmarking: posts small blind 400
Leufje: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Azaruna [Kc Ac]
vinnerboy: folds
bitxo27: folds
88_mck_88: folds
laveta27: raises 3200 to 4000
10 4 fisch: raises 11910 to 15910 and is all-in
Azaruna: calls 10782 and is all-in
Sagit1: folds
benchmarking: folds
Leufje: folds
laveta27: calls 11910
*** FLOP *** [Th 2c Td]
*** TURN *** [Th 2c Td] [5s]
*** RIVER *** [Th 2c Td 5s] [Kh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
laveta27: shows [Kd Ks] (a full house, Kings full of
10 4 fisch: shows [Js Jh] (two pair, Jacks and Tens)
laveta27 collected 10256 from side pot
Azaruna: shows [Kc Ac] (two pair, Kings and Tens)
laveta27 collected 34446 from main pot
10 4 fisch finished the tournament in 837th place and received $19.02.
Azaruna finished the tournament in 838th place and received $19.02.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 44702 Main pot 34446. Side pot 10256. | Rake 0
Board [Th 2c Td 5s Kh]
Seat 1: laveta27 showed [Kd Ks] and won (44702) with a
full house, Kings full of Tens
Seat 2: 10 4 fisch showed [Js Jh] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Tens
Seat 3: Azaruna showed [Kc Ac] and lost with two pair, Kings and Tens
Seat 4: Sagit1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: benchmarking (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Leufje (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: vinnerboy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: bitxo27 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: 88_mck_88 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Sun Jul 03, 2011, 11:27 AM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
reads on those two opponents would greatly play into my thinking on how to play this one.

You're ITM, so you can now take more chances to accumulate chips (unless there was a big jump in the paylevel in the near future... which I'm guessing there wasn't).

If both of the opps were playing tight, I'd have most likely mucked it and tried to get my chips into a pot where I could isolate one opponent. With a raise to 5BB and then a push, they most likely have a mid pair at worst, so you'd be in a 3-way race.... which you will win less than 50% of the time.
If both were playing loose, I'd be alot more tempted to make a call, because most likely I'd be ahead in the hand, as their range would be alot wider and have many, many hands that I'd be ahead of (only thing with them I'd probably be behind is a low pair).

Either way, if it were up to me, I'd probably muck it and try to get into a pot where I'm isolated with one other player... giving me a better chance to win and double up.
Sun Jul 03, 2011, 11:45 AM
Deltan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 5
Hello .

So much of the play of this hand depends on previous hands, but here is my cold read of the situation.

You have all players in early position folding, then a 5*BB raise in middle position. Imo, 5*BB in that spot is a bet worthy of respect as a "standard" raise here is usually around 3 - 4*BB. This is then immediately followed by an all-in shove. You called and then the initial raiser (chip lead for the table) called.

There was no post-flop play as all players present were passengers at this point.

Big slick is not an easy hand to play. Without going into the maths, it's a coin-flip against pairs from about queens to nines and even small pairs are only a small dog. Aces have you dominated and you are a smallish dog to kings. The only hands you dominate are not likely to bet the way we saw here. The fact that you had suited cards slightly improves your odds though (emphasis on the slightly). Since you were in the money at this stage of the tournament I would expect that most of the donkish all-in play that you see early (even in the $11 tourneys) would have virtually disappeared by this point so much of your decision making has to be based on the tendencies of the players already in the pot. Even the person who shoved is not "desperate" for chips, they had you covered after all.

In summary, I don't see that this play is "wrong" or "right" it depends entirely on your read at that moment and the types of players already in the pot. With big slick I prefer to be the one doing the raising rather than the calling, and the fact that I could only call would also influence my decision. With only the single hand to base my decision on here I have to say that a fold is more appropriate because both the preceeding bets indicate strength - pocket pairs or another big slick, so in effect, you are calling 2 people where at best (in both cases) you are coin-flip or split pot. That's not great odds to put your tournament life on the line.

Hope this helps.
Sun Jul 03, 2011, 12:36 PM
PlsDntBlffMe's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 42
Post Deleted

Last edited by PlsDntBlffMe; Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 01:45 PM..
Wed Nov 23, 2011, 07:33 PM
Azaruna's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by PlsDntBlffMe View Post
Pretty much what JWK24 said.

I also definitely agree with Deltan that it is always better to be betting/raising with AK rather than calling but ...

Once I'm in the money with time running out and I only have 13bb left with an M of 5 , I'm thinking this is as good a spot as it gets with a decent chance of doubling or maybe even tripling up (unless the opponents have KK+) so I'm basically never folding AK here unless the players betting in front of me are complete nits and contrary to what I've said in another thread I think I'll be even more in love with my AcKc now especially as it's 'soooted' (Extra 3% FTW!).

Besides, you're going to need to get lucky to get deep and win a tournament anyway so I really don't think you should be shying away from these opportunities to win big pots that could greatly improve your chances of making a deep run.

I am with you on this one as I have been too cautious in past tournaments and been eaten away by the blinds and antes as they get bigger once the bubble has burst.. I usually end up folding in good positions with good hands then regretting it when not having many good hands after to make moves with.

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