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understanding point system in new league

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understanding point system in new league - Sun Jul 03, 2011, 02:31 PM
(#1)
mmaracle's Avatar
Since: Mar 2009
Posts: 73
BronzeStar
I just played my first PSO tourney under the new format.
10000 in the field and I still don't understang the point
system. Out of 10000 I came in 2548!

With my dismal finish does this put me in the positive
or negetive points? And why is there a extended
registration after the tourny is full. As the number of
players exceeds the 10000 player limit by 500 to
1000.

I injoyed the tourny and look forword playing it
more often. But can someone help me out with
the point system.

Thank you .........Best of luck to all......

Last edited by mmaracle; Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 02:32 PM.. Reason: typo
 
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Sun Jul 03, 2011, 02:58 PM
(#2)
VareckRay's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 182
i finished just under 3000 in one with 10,000 and i got -0.44 so you should be in positive points there if only just

Last edited by VareckRay; Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 03:06 PM..
 
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Sun Jul 03, 2011, 03:04 PM
(#3)
Deleted user
2500 Is the cut off top 25% get points
 
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Sun Jul 03, 2011, 03:09 PM
(#4)
mmaracle's Avatar
Since: Mar 2009
Posts: 73
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted user View Post
2500 Is the cut off top 25% get points
So it has dropped from 40% to 25%.

Thank you IseeCookies as this is great to know.

Best of luck at the tables.
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 12:31 PM
(#5)
bogweed1964's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 774
Anyone with a head for maths want to check my thinking on the scoring system. No? ok then

I did post it in the monster sticky but it probably got swallowed up and overlooked by now. I must admit it's difficult to explain but I hope someone with a head for numbers, and decyphering gibberish, will see where I'm coming from.

My thinking is that mathematically excluding the non-league players from the field size calculation yet including them in the finishing positions for points allocation skews a true outcome in the scoring formula.

If 10k enter a tourney of which only 3k are league players the scoring formula is calculated based on a league field size of 3,000. As far as that aspect of the scoring formula is concerned there are only 3,000 players in the tournament and its input into the formula calculates the points allocation accordingly based on this number.

However the points in reality are distributed based upon the full 10,000 entries, as the field size aspect of the scoring formula believes it to be impossible for anyone to finish lower than
3,000th, which inevitably some do, this results in an inaccurate allocation of points scored to the league playing entries when they are distributed based on overall finishing position not formula field size finishing position.

In essence for the scoring system to be accurate the non-league players have to be taken out of the equation in the distribution of points, ie the league player finishing highest in effect comes first.

I am not saying this is how it should be I am saying that mathematically with the current formula the field size aspect of the formula is only accurate if the points are distributed based on the same number.

The alternative would be for the field size element of the formula to be the actual number of tournament entries. This however would in turn then throw out the field strength aspect of the formula creating another innaccuracy.

Anyone have Stephen Hawkings' phone number?
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 12:37 PM
(#6)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
I'm not sure that is correct Bog..to my understanding, all players will be scored for a tourney, but only those who are members will be on the leader-board.
You'll still receive the points if you're not a member, but you won't be on the leader-board.
I am guessing that players who were members in the other leagues, that combined with pso, are members here now too and will not have to pass the core quiz to become members, but I could be mistaken. Wouldn't be the first time if I am.
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 12:46 PM
(#7)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by !!!111Dan View Post
I'm not sure that is correct Bog..to my understanding, all players will be scored for a tourney, but only those who are members will be on the leader-board.
You'll still receive the points if you're not a member, but you won't be on the leader-board.
I am guessing that players who were members in the other leagues, that combined with pso, are members here now too and will not have to pass the core quiz to become members, but I could be mistaken. Wouldn't be the first time if I am.

Correct

The whole field is taken into account and points awarded accordingly
Non-league players who point don't appear on the leaderboard
Only those players from the combined leagues appear
Best to burst the bubble in each tourney ( 1441 of a 10k field) to be in positive points

Re:Stephen Hawkins its 1-800-GENIUS
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 12:57 PM
(#8)
IroncladMerc's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 581
Yes, I like to aim for the top 1440 each time, it's not that hard to do, I sat out one tourney and got to 1500th-ish place. 1440 guarantees you positive points.
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 01:18 PM
(#9)
Spudder47's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 45
BronzeStar
There are new plateau points. Unfortunately we are having to find them by trial an error. It's looking like over 1900 pts the pos. pts mark drops to about 18%. Not sure how many levels it's broken down to yet. Need more Data. So just like old system, timebanking and folding will only take you so far. So volume may only be good to a certain point. But i'm sure the smart ones have already figured this out. LET'S PLAY SOME POKER BOYS!!!
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 01:21 PM
(#10)
Spudder47's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 45
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Oh and still not sure if hitting that 1440 mark will automatically give you pos pts at very high levels. We will have to see.
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 01:36 PM
(#11)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogweed1964 View Post
My thinking is that mathematically excluding the non-league players from the field size calculation yet including them in the finishing positions for points allocation skews a true outcome in the scoring formula.
Is that what PSO said in the sticky? That they're not including the field strength data for non-league players, even if they have it on record? Yeah, I missed that

Well, yeah, that's true that if they were going to factor in field strength in an attempt to normalize scores from tourney to tourney, then by only including the strength indicators for the registered players would necessarily lead to inaccuracy.

Just how much of an inaccuracy would be impossible to calculate without the data for the players who aren't signed up for the league though.

Also, it might be an inaccurate reflection of field strength to use the figure for only part of the field, it isn't necessarily skewing the data one way or another though unless higher-ranking players are routinely tending to play at one time, and lower-ranking players are routinely tending to play at one time, right, because otherwise the entire field would be subjected to the indentical inaccurate figure of field strength.

And even if that's the case where a higher ranking player routinely plays in a lower-ranking field, just how much of a differential could one really expect, translated into points - I don't think I've ever noticed field strength account for more than like half a point? It seems that one's ranking seems to matter much more?

And then finally - it would seem that most higher ranking players play a lot because frequency matters the most of all in helping overcome variance, etc. The variance is such a bear! So if people are playing in most every game, there's little chance of the people at the levels where skewing could make the difference in terms of $ to matter I would think?

But yeah, probably you're right about the inaccuracy thing.

Hey, bogweed - you know what you might find interesting ... notice how the monthly prize pool listed as $44,000?

Last edited by TrustySam; Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 01:39 PM..
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 02:35 PM
(#12)
bogweed1964's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 774
Hi Trusty,

I was referring to field size rather than field strength, Staff confirmed that the field size aspect of the formula calculation is based on league players only.

The non-league players can't be included in field strength because they have no league standing and as such no position to include within the field strength part of the calculation.

You are right though that similar to the problem with the field size the the same exclusion within the field strength aspect of the formula inevitably skews the actual points award.
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 02:39 PM
(#13)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogweed1964 View Post
Hi Trusty,

I was referring to field size rather than field strength, Staff confirmed that the field size aspect of the formula calculation is based on league players only.

The non-league players can't be included in field strength because they have no league standing and as such no position to include within the field strength part of the calculation.

You are right though that similar to the problem with the field size the the same exclusion within the field strength aspect of the formula inevitably skews the actual points award.
Oh, I misread ... will have to go back and reread your original question then

But they should have field strength numbers for everybody - if a person has played in a league game before, they'd have a standing that would have resulted in x number of points had they been registered (thereby giving them a ranking) - the computer should have record of that, even if it doesn't appear on the league leaderboard; for those who haven't played before they'd start at 1500, as we all do.

Also, I said that there were inaccuracies, and any skewing was minimal and inconsequential ... de minimus ... so I'm not sure it's completely accurate to take out of my comment that I said there was skewing (that mattered) ... but I didn't say that there wasn't ... just that it was minimal ... jmo though ...

Last edited by TrustySam; Mon Jul 04, 2011 at 02:42 PM..
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 02:47 PM
(#14)
77wopke77's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
BronzeStar
well my experience is that sitting out will get u about 11 points!! i've tried it.
it's no poker i know but will keep u from dropping like hell
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 02:48 PM
(#15)
bogweed1964's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by !!!111Dan View Post
I'm not sure that is correct Bog..to my understanding, all players will be scored for a tourney, but only those who are members will be on the leader-board.
You'll still receive the points if you're not a member, but you won't be on the leader-board.
I am guessing that players who were members in the other leagues, that combined with pso, are members here now too and will not have to pass the core quiz to become members, but I could be mistaken. Wouldn't be the first time if I am.
Dan,

I understand that every position including non-league players is allocated points and that is the nub of the problem if the formula calculating those points is based upon the league playing entrants only.

Unless all data input into the formula is based upon the same numbers of entrants and their strength then the points results will inevitably be skewed.
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 02:49 PM
(#16)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
field := size of field
rank := players finishing position
field strength:= average of starting scores of all tournament participants
2ln := Logarithm with the base 2

New score = [old score] + delta + 4 + ([field strength] - [old score]) / 33

Formula for delta:

Top 1/16 finishers:
delta = 40+(1/16-(rank/field))*16*40

Top 25% finishers:
delta = (2ln (field/rank)-2)*20

Bottom 75% finishers:
delta = (2ln (field/rank)-2)*10


So, this is the formula ... so somebody from PSO told you that they were only using people who had signed up for PSO to come up with number for 'field' in the above formula? That can't possibly be right. Because otherwise somebody who comes in 1440th place wouldn't be showing as making ITM so long as even one person signed up who wasn't a member of the league.

Maybe they said field size, but meant field strength?
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 02:57 PM
(#17)
bogweed1964's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 774
Trusty, heres the post by Staff on it.


"Say there are 10,000 entries. You finish the highest of all global school members in 11th place. You will receive a score for 11/10000, however when calculating the strength of field part of the formula only global school members that enter the event will be used. So say that 3000 of the 10000 are school members then the strength of field would be a sum of those 3,000 members current points divided by 3,000.

The "in the money" part of the formula is calculated as per my earlier post.

By the way, the 11th place finish would not therefore receive any bonus points for final table finish.

Hope this clarifies it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good Luck"
PSO STAFF
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 03:02 PM
(#18)
Swaxwell's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 315
Seems you got it here Sam. Field size is field size, and not adjusted according to league participation. Field strength can only be calculated by excluding non-league members, because non league members have no ranking.
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 03:12 PM
(#19)
bogweed1964's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 774
Whether it is field size or strength, if all aspects of the formula are not calculated on the same numbers it will inevitably skew the outcome.
 
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Mon Jul 04, 2011, 03:14 PM
(#20)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bogweed1964 View Post
Whether it is field size or strength, if all aspects of the formula are not calculated on the same numbers it will inevitably skew the outcome.
THEY DO CALCULATE THEM ALL ON THE SAME NO.

 

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