Home / Community / Forum / Poker Community / Live Game Sweats and Online Tournaments / Skill League /

Tournament SCHEDULE Discussion and Criticism

Old
Default
Tournament SCHEDULE Discussion and Criticism - Mon Jul 04, 2011, 08:48 PM
(#1)
Widzywidzy^^'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 151
The only small problem I have with the tournament schedule is that there are a bit too many tournaments per day in my opinion. I mean, ofcourse it is unfair to have all tournaments for American timezones because then players from say, Russia, would have a disadvantage as the tournaments wouldn't be in their timeframe and they would have to be playing at like 4am etc, but I think the current system gives extremely poker addicted players and players that have next to no social life a HUGE advantage. You're gonna get a bunch of good players who are gonna actually be very geeky and play 6 tournaments a day, then sleep for 4 hours and do the same again. Obviously the strategy for these players will be to play super tight and make sure they gain atleast a small increase in rank each tournament, meaning that if they double up once every tournament they will do insanely well. This obviously only works over a great period of time because if they play 5 or even possibly 6 tournaments per day they are playing as much as 186 tournaments a month. This removes a large portion of variance from their overall monthly playing time and they will undoubtedly do better than someone who is equally skilled and finished in roughly the same position in each tournament, but only played say, 2 tournaments per day, giving them a 62 tournament month.

Of course, this is all just random theory and everyone is entitled to use the system to their advantage as long as it is within the rules. Just pointing out a few things if anyone didnt already think about it. Im sure im not the only one who feels this way :p Im not saying I have any better ideas but I would just like to see everyones opinion on this matter, thought it would be interesting to talk about.

That said, I feel that the points system is by far the best I have ever come across for monthly prizes. It really bases the league on skill over time, removing alot of the variance. Well done guys.

Feel free to post your thoughts on this matter.

ps. in before tl;dr
 
Old
Default
Mon Jul 04, 2011, 08:56 PM
(#2)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,287
I'm playing 1 tourney a day, it is what it is. The good players will rise to the top.
 
Old
Default
Mon Jul 04, 2011, 08:57 PM
(#3)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
You know there are choke points when you go up the leader board
so a good player that plays less will be higher then a mid player that plays a lot
 
Old
Default
Mon Jul 04, 2011, 09:10 PM
(#4)
Widzywidzy^^'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemetdennis View Post
You know there are choke points when you go up the leader board
so a good player that plays less will be higher then a mid player that plays a lot
but a good player that plays a lot will be higher than a good player who plays an average amount (in general, obviously not always)

that said, I do think this does help better players score higher than worse players, but the good player with no free time, or a job etc. will be punished by the system, and the good player with nothing to do all day and someone who only sleeps like 4 hours will have a huge advantage over the other good player.
 
Old
Default
Mon Jul 04, 2011, 09:21 PM
(#5)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widzywidzy^^ View Post
but a good player that plays a lot will be higher than a good player who plays an average amount (in general, obviously not always)

that said, I do think this does help better players score higher than worse players, but the good player with no free time, or a job etc. will be punished by the system, and the good player with nothing to do all day and someone who only sleeps like 4 hours will have a huge advantage over the other good player.
IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY
WHAT TIMES WOULD YOU CUT OUT
SOME CAN ONLY PLAY ONE A DAY NOW
IF YOU CUT IT DOWN SOME WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY AT ALL

 
Old
Default
Mon Jul 04, 2011, 09:25 PM
(#6)
Widzywidzy^^'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 151
LOL @ people who play this tourny. I think its just random bad players that are almost always doing this, but I just open shoved AK from UTG+1 for like 40 BBs and got 2 callers KQ and QJ.. The KQ call is horrible enough and the QJ is just hilarious but whatever, im just happy these players exist.
 
Old
Default
Mon Jul 04, 2011, 09:38 PM
(#7)
Widzywidzy^^'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 151
lol @ random scrub 3betting A7 into 5 limpers then busting my JJ.
 
Old
Default
Mon Jul 04, 2011, 11:11 PM
(#8)
Spudder47's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 45
BronzeStar
I've played in quite a few leagues now over the years and volume has always made a huge difference, not to say it wins everytime. So I hear you critisizing but not really offering an alternative solution. Well as hemetdennis mentioned the choke pts are there for this reason otherwise the winner would always be the one who could play the most games. The real game is played at the ceiling in the last two days or so. But back to your original critique, eliminating games would be absolutely pointless, the only solution to get a true gage of talent would be to have say 6 games a day but everyone can only play 2 games. And those two games count to pts. And no not being able to play all 6 and take the best 2scores because that again would only benefit volume.
 
Old
Default
Mon Jul 04, 2011, 11:17 PM
(#9)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudder47 View Post
I've played in quite a few leagues now over the years and volume has always made a huge difference, not to say it wins everytime. So I hear you critisizing but not really offering an alternative solution. Well as hemetdennis mentioned the choke pts are there for this reason otherwise the winner would always be the one who could play the most games. The real game is played at the ceiling in the last two days or so. But back to your original critique, eliminating games would be absolutely pointless, the only solution to get a true gage of talent would be to have say 6 games a day but everyone can only play 2 games. And those two games count to pts. And no not being able to play all 6 and take the best 2scores because that again would only benefit volume.
YOU KNOW THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN
THATS LIKE FORD SAYING YOU CAN ONLY DRIVE A FORD 50 MI. A DAY
THEN YOU HAVE TO DRIVE SOMETHING ELSE

 
Old
Default
Mon Jul 04, 2011, 11:47 PM
(#10)
Swaxwell's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 315
The players that play many tourneys will still have to be good to do well, because they expose themselves to more risk, especially when you take the choke points into account, like Hemet said. However it cannot be denied that if two people were of identical skill, and both good players, the one who played the most tournaments would do better.

The only solution to this would be to have a cap on tourney entries per month, like Spudder said. I think this is a great idea, and it has been mentioned many times, but it seems that the authorities do not like it for some reason. And as you mentioned in the OP, this is not a criticism of those who choose to go for max volume; why not, if that brings max value? But a true test of skill would surely involve a cap on tourneys played. Saying that, last month I managed to finish in the top 150 with less than 1 tourney per day. This month I am playing a lot more, but doing a lot worse. Go figure.

Also just as a side note to the title of your OP, I would be wary of offering criticism. It seems that criticism, even if constructive, is largely frowned upon within this community. Don’t know why, maybe just to protect the status quo of the accomplished player’s monopoly of the money. Maybe they are just scared of us new up-starts, I dunno, but you have been warned lol. Good luck on the felts

Last edited by Swaxwell; Tue Jul 05, 2011 at 12:05 AM..
 
Old
Default
Tue Jul 05, 2011, 12:08 AM
(#11)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaxwell View Post
The players that play many tourneys will still have to be good to do well, because they expose themselves to more risk, especially when you take the choke points into account, like Hemet said. However it cannot be denied that if two people were of identical skill, and both good players, the one who played the most tournaments would do better.

The only solution to this would be to have a cap on tourney entries per month, like Spudder said. I think this is a great idea, and it has been mentioned many times, but it seems that the authorities do not like it for some reason. And as you mentioned in the OP, this is not a criticism of those who choose to go for max volume; why not, if that brings max value. But a true test of skill would surely involve a cap on tourneys played. Saying that, last month I managed to finish in the top 150 with less than 1 tourney per day. This month I am playing a lot more, but doing a lot worse. Go figure.

Also just as a side note to the title of your OP, I would be wary of offering criticism. It seems that criticism, even if constructive, is largely frowned upon within this community. Don’t know why, maybe just to protect the status quo of the accomplished player’s monopoly of the money. Maybe they are just scared of us new up-starts, I dunno, but you have been warned lol. Good luck on the felts
I HAVE ALSO HEARD SOME SAY TO TAKE AN AVERAGE OF YOUR BEST 10 GAMES
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT ??
AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH CRITICISM
BUT TRY NOT TO COMPLAIN JUST TO COMPLAIN

 
Old
Default
Tue Jul 05, 2011, 01:50 AM
(#12)
Widzywidzy^^'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 151
Thanks for the words Swaxwell, and I agree that capped amount of tournament entries per day would definately help towards that issue.

When you mention this choke point, are you simply talking about the fact that when you progress higher in the rankings, you gain less points and lose more for the same position you would have finished, say 200 points before? Or am I missing something?
 
Old
Default
Tue Jul 05, 2011, 02:02 AM
(#13)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widzywidzy^^ View Post
Thanks for the words Swaxwell, and I agree that capped amount of tournament entries per day would definately help towards that issue.

When you mention this choke point, are you simply talking about the fact that when you progress higher in the rankings, you gain less points and lose more for the same position you would have finished, say 200 points before? Or am I missing something?
AS YOUR SCORE GOES HIGHER YOU GET LESS POINTS FOR THE SAME FINISH

 
Old
Default
Tue Jul 05, 2011, 06:37 PM
(#14)
Swaxwell's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemetdennis View Post
I HAVE ALSO HEARD SOME SAY TO TAKE AN AVERAGE OF YOUR BEST 10 GAMES
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT ??
AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH CRITICISM
BUT TRY NOT TO COMPLAIN JUST TO COMPLAIN

I think an average of one's best 10 games is a terrible idea. It would do nothing to eliminate the edge gained by playing more, and would also encourage even more wild play!

And I do try to never complain just for the sake of it, although I do admit I may go over the top from time to time. I just think that constructive criticism is vital for any organisation to perform optimally.
 
Old
Default
Thu Jul 14, 2011, 12:16 AM
(#15)
curvyroads's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 63
i'm definitely for the limited PSO played per day, once every 24 hours would be just fair for everyone
 
Old
Default
Thu Jul 14, 2011, 12:24 AM
(#16)
Da Sens Fan's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,118
I don't mind limiting the amount per month. However, the lower you bring it down, the more it favours the bingo-shove monkeys. More tournaments helps separate the lucky players on a hot streak from the solid players, there is no denying this imo.The last thing I think we want to do is to give them even more excuses to play lotto poker.

Use the current leaderboard as an example. Russians are notorious for playing the bingo style in these. Take a look at how many are in the top 100, even though they have so many players. I scanned quickly and do not see any. I guarantee if you capped the league at 1 per day, that there will be a tonne of bingo players up there.

I don't think this will ever happen though. Why would pokerstars cap Pso games? They want to feed the addiction from a business standpoint, not choke it off.

Last edited by Da Sens Fan; Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 12:29 AM..
 
Old
Default
Thu Jul 14, 2011, 11:43 AM
(#17)
jf70's Avatar
Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 88
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widzywidzy^^ View Post
lol @ random scrub 3betting A7 into 5 limpers then busting my JJ.
Everyone overplays JJ imo. It's not a hand you want to go all in preflop early in the tourney, full stop. IMHO neither is QQ. KK only because it has AK (under)dominated -- even then, it's only about 69% vs AK. That's like how good AK vs QJ is (and also how good AK vs 32 is). I.e. not that huge favourite. There is even a case to be made for folding AA early 4-handed. Assuming typical opponents like 88, KQ, and J5 (the russian?) you will be 58% to win, which means you are out about as often as QQ vs AK. Clearly AA 5-handed is less than 50% to win.
 
Old
Default
Thu Jul 28, 2011, 12:08 AM
(#18)
Widzywidzy^^'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by jf70 View Post
Everyone overplays JJ imo. It's not a hand you want to go all in preflop early in the tourney, full stop. IMHO neither is QQ. KK only because it has AK (under)dominated -- even then, it's only about 69% vs AK. That's like how good AK vs QJ is (and also how good AK vs 32 is). I.e. not that huge favourite. There is even a case to be made for folding AA early 4-handed. Assuming typical opponents like 88, KQ, and J5 (the russian?) you will be 58% to win, which means you are out about as often as QQ vs AK. Clearly AA 5-handed is less than 50% to win.
This is all definately true but I find it hard to discipline myself to not shove JJ when you are gonna end up 3x what you started with when you began the hand and knowing your almost always getting 1 or 0 callers, and the 1 caller almost always being 30% or under. This aside, ive only had a few CRAZY tables. By crazy I mean 6 way all ins etc. You do get atleast 1 shovescrub every tournament and it is pretty easy to exploit this. The guys who call 20 pf and bet 520 into a 60 pot etc. Its just free money from my pov. Lets be honest, there is an argument to fold AA in that spot, but would any of us actually do it? Maybe if it was the first hand in the last day of the league and I was 1st by 5 points :p
 
Old
Default
Thu Jul 28, 2011, 01:26 AM
(#19)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
A lot of this makes me laugh to be honest.

jf70 that font of wondrous knowledge previously said that the German/Spanish scoring system would reward skill not volume and high finishes, but honestly it is worse than the old PSO scoring system.

There is no real choke or throttle. The leader just had a slightly above 500 finish in his last game and still scored 17 points. Now as someone pointed out previously, my granny or a child, could double up on one hand and fold to that position. The fact is that the Open League has nothing to do with skill but has everything to do with volume. I think Widzy made that point in another thread about people not playing poker. Unfortunately, it is impossible to play poker, when if you make a raise you get 7 callers.... it is worse than play money!!! And I would say to Oku that that is the reason why people will even fold Qs here. This system is about scoring points not winning a MTT!!

Everybody keeps going on about the Premier League and how it will be much better. I am sorry to shatter your illusions people but it will be no better than the old PSO. If you want to play over 100 games a month to earn 50$ then that is up to the individual. However, I think there are many opportunities to win much more on Pokerstars with much less time investment. Take your pick.

TC

Oh BTW the best player based on top finishes is Van Squash ( I hope I got the name right)... now that player really has game and should win the top prize for having the most top 10 finishes.


TC
 
Old
Default
Thu Jul 28, 2011, 08:41 AM
(#20)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by topthecat View Post
A lot of this makes me laugh to be honest.

There is no real choke or throttle. The leader just had a slightly above 500 finish in his last game and still scored 17 points. Now as someone pointed out previously, my granny or a child, could double up on one hand and fold to that position.

Everybody keeps going on about the Premier League and how it will be much better. I am sorry to shatter your illusions people but it will be no better than the old PSO. If you want to play over 100 games a month to earn 50$ then that is up to the individual. However, I think there are many opportunities to win much more on Pokerstars with much less time investment. Take your pick.

Oh BTW the best player based on top finishes is Van Squash ( I hope I got the name right)... now that player really has game and should win the top prize for having the most top 10 finishes.

Me too.

There are definate choke points in this system. I presume the finish you were referring to was close to the top 5% of the field. Have you forgotten that finishing that high in the old system also brought rewards? And whilst a child or granny could indeed get their all important double up, I doubt they would then have the discipline to preserve their gain.

I've just put somebody else straight on this "time investment" issue in another thread. Whilst I have personal experience of how running a PSO game at the same time as something else can be a dodgy combination, just how many of the "$50 earners" do you think are playing these with nothing else on screen? Very few would be my guess. And those that are are probably happy with the $50 earned in a risk free environment.

And as for Van Squash being the best player in the league. If the "clockers" were playing to win these tournaments, I suspect you would see a number of people with far more top 10 finishes than her.

I don't know what it is with you lately top. You know the system, you know how to benefit from it, you know how it fails to give a clear indication of who is capable of achieving results elsewhere, and yet you keep throwing in these curveballs. Pack it in and show us the results of someone (you) who no longer appears to have the time to "waste" here or indeed the inclination to participate and benefit from what's on offer. If changing minds is your mission, do it by example.
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com