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analyze this hand please !

View Poll Results: How would you have played this hand?
I would have gone all in straight away 3 60.00%
I would have played in a similar way 0 0%
I would not have played this hand 2 40.00%
Voters: 5. You may not vote on this poll

 
Old
Angry
analyze this hand please ! - Wed Jul 06, 2011, 05:37 AM
(#1)
pipergsm's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26
Hi there,
being unable to copy paste the hand I'd like to be analyze, I'll ask it here, old fashioned way.

PSO Leage, 113 players remaining out of 10.000
my stack : 45.000
big stack : 81.000
BB : 3000
my hand : Ac Tc
being careful, I limp (wanted to go all in, but hesitated)
Big stacks bets : 30.000 (wants to scare me off I guess, being much bigger than I am)
I call 30.000
Flop : 2h Qc Qs
I check
Big stack bets 15.000
I call (all in)
Big stack shows : A7 o (I suspected similar cards, which is why I called pf and flop)
Turn : 7c
River : Kh
Big stack wins : QQ 77

Was I wrong to call the bets?
My personal opinion : I should have gone all in from the start and the Big Stack
just gets lucky spiking a second 7.

Let me know what you think about this hand and my way of playing it.
Thanks
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 06, 2011, 06:25 AM
(#2)
Horrible68's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 16
None of the above, because I don't like pushing 15BB deep. I would raise to about 7,500 and call the expected push by the big stack. Same result, of course.
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 06, 2011, 07:50 AM
(#3)
yahooza1's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 141
BronzeStar
presuming it got folded around to you in the small blind i'd be open shoving this with just about 100 players left, especially when you are well into some positive points(prob +70ish, which used to need a win to achieve these sort of points in old league).

so with that in mind i'd be thinking i've already done a good job even if i were to bust this hand and put the pressure on him, he may have even layed down the A7 and if he did make the call you would actually be happy to see him hold that hand.

the flop to me is pretty scary but since you were committed you made the call and rightly so, the guy got lucky on the turn and even when he does hit his 7 you still have outs for the river which sadly you miss.

you know what they always say... don't be results orientated! when the money went in you were good so be happy about that one and well done on finishing well.

good luck
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 06, 2011, 07:54 AM
(#4)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipergsm View Post
Hi there,
being unable to copy paste the hand I'd like to be analyze, I'll ask it here, old fashioned way.

PSO Leage, 113 players remaining out of 10.000
my stack : 45.000
big stack : 81.000
BB : 3000
my hand : Ac Tc
being careful, I limp (wanted to go all in, but hesitated)
Big stacks bets : 30.000 (wants to scare me off I guess, being much bigger than I am)
I call 30.000
Flop : 2h Qc Qs
I check
Big stack bets 15.000
I call (all in)
Big stack shows : A7 o (I suspected similar cards, which is why I called pf and flop)
Turn : 7c
River : Kh
Big stack wins : QQ 77

Was I wrong to call the bets?
My personal opinion : I should have gone all in from the start and the Big Stack
just gets lucky spiking a second 7.

Let me know what you think about this hand and my way of playing it.
Thanks
not certain of the NEW scoring system, but under the old one there was almost no benefit to ladder climbing once you had gotten itm...UNLESS you had a stack that was almost a "lock" to get you to the final table.

So in this spot, with 113 left, you are in a pretty "normal" play situation.

If that is the case, I believe you played the hand FAR too passively, and far too much like a calling station.

You limp 3k off your 15BB stack of 45k...nuttin' wrong with that really, although "normally" your stack size would dictate a raise-to-enter thought (see Harrington "M" Zones for an explaination of Why). Personally, it events with a lot of weak and aggressive players, I will soetimes limp a 15BB stack and either see the flop, or jam over a weak raiser. ATo is a bit "light" for me to like doing that, but there ARE some players agaisnt whom it is pretty effect. But anyway...

When the Villain re-raises you, making it 30k to go, how cn you call?
The fact is, what flops might come that you are willing to CALL OFF 2/3rds of your stack pre-flop, then fold? The answer really should be "none".

With that said, ATo is NOT "enough" of a hand to meekly call here, since you will miss the flop completely about 2/3rds the time. If the Villain then puts the rest of your 15k in, how "happy" are you about calling? We already covered that you should NOT fold...

So I think that if you felt AT was a hand "good enough" to call his pre-flop raise, then it was a hand that was good enough for YOU to put the last of your stack in pre-flop. The fact he hit his 7 on the turn is pretty immaterial...you had no REASON to believe that on the flop your hand was "best", but you placed yourself into a situation where you all but HAD to call off the remainder of your stack.

...not a good move.
 
Old
Default
Thank you - Wed Jul 06, 2011, 08:37 AM
(#5)
pipergsm's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26
Thanks for your reaction.
I believe you are correct, though I'd like to make 1 small correction.
The hand was AT suited (AcTc), not AT o.
With that in mind, I believe (right or wrong?) I should have gone all in from the start
instead of limping (and thus giving the big stack the chance of putting pressure).
Originaly, I wanted to do so, but for some reason I hesitated at the last moment and decided to limp (the preservative part in me I guess).

Please let me know what you think, I really appreciate all the input!
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 06, 2011, 09:36 AM
(#6)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Whether ATo or s is "enough" to go on for you is HIGHLY dependant upon your read of the opponent who raised, and the one who called.

Hard to say in "isolation" whether it is or not, but a 15BB stack is not yet "desprete". You may not LIKE limp/folding on your stack size, but it isn;t like you are limp/folding on a 4 or 5BB stack...

Google this: "The GAP CONCEPT in Poker"

When you limp on the 15BB stack, you are leaving yourself room to fold, but when you CALL his big raise, you no longer have that room to fold...see?

When he raises you, your only choice is shove NOW (if you think AT is ahead of enough of his range), or FOLD. You cannot afford to call to take the flop.
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 06, 2011, 11:56 AM
(#7)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
[QUOTE=JDean;287862]Whether ATo or s is "enough" to go on for you is HIGHLY dependant upon your read of the opponent who raised, and the one who called.

Hard to say in "isolation" whether it is or not, but a 15BB stack is not yet "desprete". You may not LIKE limp/folding on your stack size, but it isn;t like you are limp/folding on a 4 or 5BB stack...

agreed! and the fact that your cards are suited only adds (about) 3% to your equity, so not a huge difference in your factoring.. stack em high! MT
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 06, 2011, 02:50 PM
(#8)
jf70's Avatar
Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 88
BronzeStar
Some good replies .. I think at 15 BBs ATs is just a fold; certainly if you intend to call 30K you might as well shove it in. No point in seeing a flop, seriously, you do that with AA maybe if you want your opponent to catch up (and even then it's easy to read with solid players).

Again this depends on your opponent. In one of today's leagues I called all in with JKs on something like 884, *knowing* my opponent had nothing; he was a massive stack and I doubled against QTo. Here I was effectively saying my opponent's range is basically any two cards, and therefore JK has good equity against him. Can you say the same with AT? When your M is a little higher it's auto-fold for me because of the risk of AJ+; here it may possibly be worth a shove against the right lag-type opponent, but as someone else has mentioned, your read is very important.
 
Old
Default
Mon Jul 25, 2011, 05:50 PM
(#9)
Oku_Ha_FooLs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 188
its a easy shove pre, no need to limp or do anything wierd just shove your uber short...............
 

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