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preflop shove?

 
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preflop shove? - Wed Jul 06, 2011, 09:33 AM
(#1)
Bones31271's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 280
should I have shoved preflop here?



this is PSO event went out in 45th

Last edited by Bones31271; Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 09:36 AM..
 
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Wed Jul 06, 2011, 09:45 AM
(#2)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Simple answer: "It depends"

Seriously though, with your stack size, KK is an "all-in hand". The only question is whether it will pay off better for you to jam pre, or jam the flop...

This means whether you open shove, or put 'em in on the flop, is kind of up to you, but you really need to be jamming either pre-flop or on the flop with KK...

The benefit of NOT open shoving is that you are likely going to get a big stack who is loose to call you, thus adding value to your pot above the blinds and antes. The drawback, as you see here, is that if the table is EXTREMELY LOOSE, you may get multiple callers. Sometimes KK is still going to be "good" in a 4 way flop, but that is less likely than in a heads up situation...'course you win MORE in a 4 way pot if they all fold, and you do need those chips.

If you do have an extremely loose table, an open shove may be slightly BETTER, simply because there will probably be at least 1 person who will call, and in that spot you have a very good chance to double up. Tables like this, where 4 people will call a pretty "committing" raise by you, are pretty rare.

So I'd say in MOST cases you did just fine (so long as your intent was to jam any flop), but if you knew all of those guys were loose enough to call your more standard raise, you might have been SLIGHTLY better served just open jamming.

Last edited by JDean; Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 09:47 AM..
 
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Wed Jul 06, 2011, 09:46 AM
(#3)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Nice score Bones.

I would have been tempted to shove here preflop but it is really determined by your reads on the other players.

If the villain was willing to call your post flop shove with middle pair and a two outer flush draw then I have little doubt he would have called the preflop shove. For some 6,8 suited is an all in hand!

You picked the right spot and just got unlucky.

TC
 
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Wed Jul 06, 2011, 09:52 AM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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KK is alot better hand if you can isolate and opponent, instead of playing a 4-way pot. It gives your opponents too many options to beat you. At that stage of the tourney, already being ITM, the only goal is to get to the FT... not about preserving chips (would fold KK to a bad flop).
If it's me, especially with the extra chips in the pot from the limper, since I've got a stack of about 13BB left..... I'm shoving immediately to try and isolate against one opponent. Even if they all fold and I get the blinds/antes/limper's chips, I'm increasing my stack by 1/4.
 
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Wed Jul 06, 2011, 09:54 AM
(#5)
Bones31271's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 280
ty, JDean, I was just wondering if villian would of folded preflop, if I shove, she was a weird one for the most part she played solid cards, I was actually shocked when I had 3 callers, but i wondered if I shoved preflop if maybe she folds since she was playing pretty solid cards up to that point
 
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Wed Jul 06, 2011, 09:55 AM
(#6)
Bones31271's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 280
ty TC :-D
 
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Wed Jul 06, 2011, 09:56 AM
(#7)
Bones31271's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 280
ok ty JWK I was thinking that myself but wasnt sure if shoving was right thing to do at time, I will know better for nxt time as you are right I would rather pick up the blinds and antes then what I ended up with lmao
 
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Wed Jul 06, 2011, 11:16 AM
(#8)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones31271 View Post
ok ty JWK I was thinking that myself but wasnt sure if shoving was right thing to do at time, I will know better for nxt time as you are right I would rather pick up the blinds and antes then what I ended up with lmao
It might just be me, but everytime I get AA or KK and try to slowplay it... all it does is get me into trouble. Before ITM, then I won't shove unless I'm a shortstack... after ITM, I'm always shoving first with them.
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 08:40 PM
(#9)
Oku_Ha_FooLs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 188
you played the hand just fine, dont be results orientated.......

Although i do think you could adjust ur bet sizing and mayb raise something like 20,000 pre instead......... you want to keep fold equity there in players by decreasing pot to stack ratio man..........
But that shoudn't even matter, on the bright side you got some chump to stack off with second pair so the way i see it well done i guess
 

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