Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Poker Education & Beginners Questions / Old Hand Analysis Section /

bad beat or wrong play?

bad beat or wrong play? - Mon Jul 11, 2011, 03:37 PM
blsprt's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 2
Mon Jul 11, 2011, 06:18 PM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,841
A 10 off is nowhere near strong enough of a hand to play on the first level from UTG. It should be an instant fold.

From UTG, you also do not want to min-raise. If you're going to play a hand early, you need to raise to at least 3BB, if not 4-5BB.

A bet, then a raise on the flop..... IF... your opponents know how to play, should be a set. I was shocked that one of them didn't have a set of 8's or even 10's.

The way the hand played out, it was an extremely bad beat... BUT... you should have never been in the hand to begin with.

Especially if this is from a PSO game, the risk of going out during the first level, far outweigh the gains that you can make.... as you'll lose ALOT more points than you can gain if you win the hand.
Mon Jul 11, 2011, 06:24 PM
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
I'm not "busting your balls here", but the more INFO you give, the better formed the reply is likely to be...

In this spot, I'd say ATo is a bit loose to open UTG, but you did it "small". This is not great, but it isn't totally bad either. there ARE "reasons" for doing so, if you know 'em...

When you open small though, you are saying you want a "small pot".

When you hit top 2, you are either WELL behind a set, or you are well AHEAD of anything else.
A raise and a re-raise behind you means it would be VERY HARD to really know which it is.
CALLING the 4Bet would put a committing amount of your stack into the pot (just under half in for your total investment), so this is not ideal.
This leaves you with "only" a shove or fold decision...

Which of these you pick is based strongly upon:

1) What you know of the opponents
Sorts of things you'd want to know are:
- Is the initial raiser likely to call if you shove, because you know the 4bettor probably will at the very least? (tells you how much you might "win" if you do win)

- Will either of them be the type to limp a BIG HAND? (increases the chance for a set of Aces being here, and w/o info in this direction AA would have been more likely to re-raise pre-flop)

- How do these opponents tend to play flopped sets? (the board here is pretty "dry", and has an A, so this is a decent spot to slow play. Neither did, so does this increase or decrease the set chance?)

- Have they shown decent "knowledge" of the game, and due "regard" for their stacks? (If not, it increases the chance they'll stack off on a 1 pair hand, or a very weak draw. If so, it greatly increases the chance you are beaten now, simply BECAUSE there are no strong draws here).

2) How "important" is it to survive vs accumulate chips in this event for YOU?
Unless a min cash means a significant increase in your bank roll (like your BR = $100 and you are playing the WSOP main event on a sattie win), or this is a league game where an early bust is very HURTFUL for your month's score, your hand will generally have enough "value" here to stack off without very STRONG indications there is a set out there now.

A double or a triple up here is still a SMALL percent of the average stack at the final table too, so if you feel you have a LARGE "skill advantage" over the opponents in the ENTIRE FIELD, you may want to look for a "better" spot...afterall, even a moron can flop a set. Your skill advantage would have to be very large though, and not just a "guess" to make a fold "reasonable" without good indications there is a set here.


As you can see, there is a LOT of factors you do not mention which might tip this into the realm of a "bad" play", or keep it as a "bad beat" or a "cooler".
Your "decisions" are often good or bad as a function of your KNOWLEDGE LEVEL, and your table "awareness", and are not a simple matter "omg! he sucked out a 4 out-er, what an IDIOT!"!

Looking at hands without all possible info is an exercise in "results oriented thinking", and since sometimes you'll do everything "right" and lose (or do everything WRONG, and win!), that is not the way to break the "negative feedback loop" of poker learning.

Results shouldn't "matter", decisions should. Good decisions will bring good results in the long run...


If you do NOT have the knowledge level to have decent reads on the opponents now, then opening ATo UTG this early in the event is VERY VERY LOOSE, and should have been avoided.

Last edited by JDean; Mon Jul 11, 2011 at 06:28 PM..
Mon Jul 25, 2011, 05:20 PM
Oku_Ha_FooLs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 188
This is another annoying bad beat story why do people post these pointless hands?

All i can tell you is your biggest mistake was MIN raising this hand UTG that is the silliest thing you could do, just fold pre man and really what makes you min raise A10 UTG?? is it for value or are you bluffing/?? LOL


Last edited by Oku_Ha_FooLs; Mon Jul 25, 2011 at 05:20 PM.. Reason: spell

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com