Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Poker Education & Beginners Questions / Old Hand Analysis Section /

tried a different approach!

tried a different approach! - Mon Jul 18, 2011, 10:13 AM
77wopke77's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
i tried someting different and my read on the guy wasn't that he would check the flop with 52 and this is what i get!! i didn't shove because the where 5 people in the hand wich where kind of reckless players and my shove was to push most of them out wich worked, but should i had pushed Pre-flop?????

PokerStarsspel #64719223060: Toernooi #411630543, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 18/07/2011 16:08:23 CET [18/07/2011 10:08:23 ET]
Tafel '411630543 430' 9-max Plaats #4 is de button
Plaats 1: ToureR V8 (550 in chips) is sitting out
Plaats 2: guchi77 (2265 in chips)
Plaats 3: Cashew450 (2370 in chips)
Plaats 4: nowhayjohn (465 in chips) is sitting out
Plaats 5: CAMAROSTAN (7495 in chips)
Plaats 6: 77wopke77 (1265 in chips)
Plaats 7: Marystyle-64 (5480 in chips)
Plaats 8: GON SILVER (11540 in chips)
Plaats 9: benny_c09 (7075 in chips)
ToureR V8: zet de ante 25
guchi77: zet de ante 25
Cashew450: zet de ante 25
nowhayjohn: zet de ante 25
CAMAROSTAN: zet de ante 25
77wopke77: zet de ante 25
Marystyle-64: zet de ante 25
GON SILVER: zet de ante 25
benny_c09: zet de ante 25
CAMAROSTAN: zet small blind 125
77wopke77: zet big blind 250
Gedeeld aan 77wopke77 [Ac Ad]
Marystyle-64: foldt
GON SILVER: callt 250
benny_c09: callt 250
ToureR V8: foldt
guchi77: callt 250
Cashew450: foldt
nowhayjohn: foldt
CAMAROSTAN: callt 125
77wopke77: checkt
*** FLOP *** [Ts 2d 2s]
77wopke77: raiset 490 naar 990 en is all-in
benny_c09: foldt
guchi77: foldt
CAMAROSTAN: callt 490
*** TURN *** [Ts 2d 2s] [8d]
*** RIVER *** [Ts 2d 2s 8d] [Jc]
*** SHOWDOWN ***
CAMAROSTAN: toont [2h 5s] (three of a kind, Tweeën)
77wopke77: toont [Ac Ad] (twee pair, Azen en Tweeën)
CAMAROSTAN won 3455 van pot
77wopke77 is op de 2334e plaats in het toernooi geëindigd
Totale pot 3455 | Rake 0
Board [Ts 2d 2s 8d Jc]
Plaats 1: ToureR V8 foldde voor de Flop (bette niet)
Plaats 2: guchi77 foldde op de Flop
Plaats 3: Cashew450 foldde voor de Flop (bette niet)
Plaats 4: nowhayjohn (button) foldde voor de Flop (bette niet)
Plaats 5: CAMAROSTAN (small blind) toonde [2h 5s] en won (3455) met three of a kind, Tweeën
Plaats 6: 77wopke77 (big blind) toonde [Ac Ad] en verloor met twee pair, Azen en Tweeën
Plaats 7: Marystyle-64 foldde voor de Flop (bette niet)
Plaats 8: GON SILVER foldde op de Flop
Plaats 9: benny_c09 foldde op de Flop
Mon Jul 18, 2011, 10:32 AM
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Push pre here for me even if it is PSO and I am the big blind with so many limpers. Even with a min raise you are virtually pot committed pre flop so I would have just got it in and prayed it held. You cannot really fold Aces.

Mon Jul 18, 2011, 11:42 AM
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
NEVER LIMP ACES! you put 1/5 of ur stack in as a blind and you have to at least TRY to thin the herd. I would've broke the mouse from shoving so quick. Doubtful 52o ever saw the flop. Jmo stack em high!! MT
Mon Jul 18, 2011, 11:47 AM
77wopke77's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
hope i did break even in points lets try the 1300
Mon Jul 18, 2011, 03:32 PM
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
Yup, shoulda jammed pre-flop.

A) You would have almost certainly gotten at least 1 caller:

You are short enough here that a pre flop jam is only roughly a pot size bet. A lot of weak opponents in these sorts of games will not "see" that as you holding strength, so they will call.
You WANT at least 1 caller, but you are not really happy with 3, so shoving may fold out the worst of the "cheese" you are facing, but will almost certainly get the CALL you want and need.

B) That is a caller you may NOT get on a lot of flops, because opponents may realize then that hands that do not connect the flop are behind:

You see, when you are as short as you are, but when your shove is equal to a pot sized bet, you are going to LOSE a lot of callers on a lot of flops...hands like AQ/AK that did not connect.

So not only do you need to get rid of SOME of these 4 limpers to help "protect" your all-in, but you also need to get 'em in early to make getting the single caller you WANT (and need) more likely to call.

C) By limping, you left in an absurdly wide range of hands versus loose opponents. That leaves an absurdly high number of ways you might have been out flopped. This was just one of 'em:

Obviously, you see the negative effects of doing this.
AA is really going to win un-improved a lot of the time, but it is NOT going to improve very much of the time.
The more opponents you let stay in the pot when you are approaching a committment threshold, the more chance you give them to IMPROVE their hands. The problem for you comes when they improve to better than your AA...


Next time, if you are this short, and you have this much action ahead of you...jam the AA.
Mon Jul 18, 2011, 03:52 PM
77wopke77's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
tnx again for this example i limped it because i lost all the other tiomes i jammed it !! but i will keep on jamming from now on! LOL
Mon Jul 18, 2011, 08:38 PM
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
not every senerio is juast a simple "jam it" but w/ only 5 BB ....eeeeyup jam every time!! stack em high! MT
Mon Jul 25, 2011, 09:38 AM
Oku_Ha_FooLs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 188
lol that was horrible play just shove pre.......

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com