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My first ever hand analysis I hope this works

 
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My first ever hand analysis I hope this works - Mon Jul 18, 2011, 11:50 PM
(#1)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,423
Hello I have chosen a hand at random just to try and set this up graphically so it may not be a good hand to analyse I simply do not know so then again it might be a good one

Please to be cruel to be kind and i wil now attempt to paste it in here graphically (got a bit stuck with instructions at step 7 though me thinks)

Sorry i am very new to this its my first ever new thread also so maybe little steps for a lot of you but giant leaps for me so please bear with me Thank you

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

omg it worked wohooo umm it is a $1 buyin for 45 players sng...I am not sure about reads it is from a while ago(chosen at random) but what other info should I include have I missed anything out?

Last edited by rolo834; Mon Jul 18, 2011 at 11:54 PM.. Reason: was testing
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 01:18 AM
(#2)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Anything you think is important should be added. Shoving AK on a short stack doesn't need much backstory I guess. Well played.

Read some of the threads below that sort of look like they're well put-together if you want (you can tell whether it is or not to some extent by looking at the thread title; if the title is detailed, the thread probably will be, too). They might help you figure out how to put a post together. Well done getting the replayer to work, though. Just don't delete the info from your database or the replayer will lose its content.
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 12:04 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
I'd have made a std raise and tried to outplay them after the flop (to get more value).... wouldn't shove until I got to 10BB or under.
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 12:56 PM
(#4)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
You can make a standard raise if you want and try to get weaker hands to call/shove, but doing it to outplay postflop sort of suggests that you're wiling to lay the hand down, and VPIP'ing and not getting to showdown on a ~13BB stack sucks a lot.
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 04:40 PM
(#5)
MSgtBakes's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 38
This one's pretty straight forward absent reads. You have 13BB and change, you're first in and you have AK. Watering your stack wont make it grow, so shipping it in is exactly right. Nice Hand~too bad nobody called, but, you can't get outflopped if there isn't one. Well done!
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 05:36 PM
(#6)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,423
wow ty guys and gals for helping

@panickypoker(and thats a cool name lol) by delete database do you mean the actual hand history text file? and what is VPIP'ing please?

@JWK It did cross my mind to tbh to raise small but what then?...when you say outplay do you mean I could raise say umm small i dunno 2.5 or 3 times the big blind and then fold if no A or K came? as i must admit I do not like folding AK with small stack

i am ok playing preflop ish but on flop/turn and river im weakest

@MSg ty
ty all

Another question is (and I will choose a better example next time hopefully ) should I include the result and peoples names including my own ? was inthe early hours i made the thread and forgot to ask that

I think im too aggressive in some parts of my game and a wimp in others

Last edited by rolo834; Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 05:39 PM.. Reason: forgot something
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 05:55 PM
(#7)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I think it's best to exclude results from the replayer unless you have a good reason to include them, because they bias what people have to say and how they think about the hand. It's easy to say you should have folded 88 when the big blind turns over AA... that sort of thing.

If you delete the information that you put into the replayer so that it no longer appears on the list of hands you've converted (next to a flag or a shield or something like that), then we won't be able to see the hand anymore and the replayer will just be empty and not show anything. Just so you know, if you delete it from that list, it won't appear here anymore.

VPIP (Voluntarily Putting $ Into the Pot) means doing anything besides checking or folding preflop. I was just saying that if you decide to play a hand with 13BB, you should generally be doing it with the plan to get all-in somehow, and never fold. Betting smaller than your stack here is fine if you want to do it, but it's usually mathematically wrong to ever fold after doing that because your stack is so short compared to the size of the pot that getting all-in should have a favourable risk vs. reward for you.

And ty about the name.
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 06:54 PM
(#8)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Hi rolo - welcome!!

The hand looks great - nice going

You know what I was wondering - you know in our profiles, like when we click on our (or other peoples') avatars ... you know how it shows our genders? Is that the default - 'male'? I've been in other message boards, where they do that - there's one message board that gives as the default a guy's silhouette, but it can't be changed. Which isn't so cute to have as a profile, especially since 99% of us posting are women

I think you can change the default settings under 'edit options' to customize yours I think ... is that the right setting everybody?

Lots of luck at the tables!!!
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 07:05 PM
(#9)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,423
yw is the panicky part as sometiems i do panic and when im not in control im allin

So I guess i just copy and paste the top part of hand history and it will still show up graphically(which is neat btw kudos to the programmers for that whoever they are)

ohh ty so it ok to delete my hand historys eventually I think you mean off my computer I mean

I agree with you on the 13bb stack but if i raise and someone calls if A or K doesnt flop I do not like putting all my remaining chips into the pot without a made hand..would that be what is referred to as a stop and go?

I am not very good at odds especially implied odds but I try some maths - so if i raise out of starting stack to 300 and get 1 caller pot would be 750 and I woul dhave 1035 left hmm ive lost myself now lol my odds must be less than 1/1 so its 750/1035 = approx 0.72/1 so if i checked a bad flop and they put me allin pot would be 1785 and iahve 1035 left so thats now 1.72/1 so does that mean i need 36% equity ?and yet the chances of an A or K coming on turn or river is approx 24%?
Am I even in the same ballpark of thinking here ?
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 07:13 PM
(#10)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,423
Hi ty TrustySam

wow I am confused 99% of posters are women?? really..well I am male and I had a chance when I first set this up a few days ago to choose my gender

my pic is of Charlotte Church a Welsh singer who i like, when she was young she was christened by the press as voice of an angel and sang classical music back then but she since moved into pop

I once read somewhere in poker women get treated better lol so I chose Charlotte a s my pic and now i cannot change it in pokerstars unfortunately

ty ty for the luck messages the same to you

Even within 30 games though I noticedI had alot of luck luckily lol but then followed by bad luck so guess it evens itself out inthe long run hence whybankroll management is so important to avoid going banrupt
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 07:20 PM
(#11)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
A stop and go is done when you do not raise all-in preflop because you know that you'll get called, and will probably have about 50% equity to win. If you raise to a smaller amount (about 1/3 of your stack), only one person calls, and then you shove all-in on any flop (which would be about a pot-sized bet), you're basically adding the chance that they'll fold to you equity of winning the hand. I'd give an example of when stop and going would be effective, but my mind is tired at the moment. You can Google some examples if you want though.

If you raise to less than your full stack here though, it would not be a stop and go because you would be trying to trap someone into calling with a worse hand like JT or AQ and then calling the all-in on the flop with the worse hand. You wouldn't be looking for a fold, which is the point of a stop and go.
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 07:41 PM
(#12)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolo834 View Post
Hi ty TrustySam

wow I am confused 99% of posters are women??
Oh yeah, sorry - I tend to be confusing, it's not you haha!

omgosh, I didn't recognize her! She's all grown up Yeah, her voice was gorgeous!!! I remember she had a really fun personality too - that's great to hear she's still singing and has been able to make a go of it. Seems like so many of those young stars who grow up under the microscope wind up having a hard time adjusting when they grow up. Glad to see all the Harry Potter gang doing well - my family may be having a mini-reunion in New York City in the States in the Fall and we were thinking of going to seeing Daniel Radcliffe on Broadway - who knew he could sing?

I don't know if women get treated differently on the tables, because most people who don't know I'm female always assume I'm a guy ... one time somebody said I played like a girl, and then I said that's because I am a girl, and he couldn't believe it lol. For some reason the Greek guys always know when somebody's female though ... not sure how they know - so flirtatious

Anyways, welcome again! Best of luck!
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 09:03 PM
(#13)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,423
ohhh@If you raise to less than your full stack here though, it would not be a stop and go because you would be trying to trap someone into calling with a worse hand like JT or AQ and then calling the all-in on the flop with the worse hand. You wouldn't be looking for a fold, which is the point of a stop and go

Im glad you put that part or i would have stil not have known so lets say I had 44 and knew a loosey goosey would call with QT or any 2 paint I raise and go allin on any flop and 2/3 of tiem they will have missed ..so its go t to be used against people who would call the flop and be able to fold on the bad flop for them ? even though they should call cos of the maths? (again im using the example of effective stack of 13bb's)

@trustysam believe you me its not you it is me by the confusion and greek adonis can spot women in the fog !!

am not too keen on Harry Potter and Charlotte married a rugby player (Gavin Henson i think)had 2 or 3 kids but got divorced quite recently....if you want to hear any of her pop songs goto utube and look for crazy chick or call my name (shes really grown up now ) and she even had her own chatshow and shes so down to earth

I assume everyones male lol im the other way

thank you for the well wishes gl2u2
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 09:13 PM
(#14)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolo834 View Post
......
I once read somewhere in poker women get treated better lol so I chose Charlotte a s my pic and now i cannot change it in pokerstars unfortunately
.....
Try sending an email to support@pokerstars.com for an avatar change. They tell ya' you can't change a pic, but they will.
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 09:14 PM
(#15)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Regarding the stop and go play, that's basically correct, yes. 1/3 times you shove the flop, they'll have hit and you'll usually lose, but if they fold the other 2/3 of the time, then you've gained equity if they would have called you on a coinflip 100% of the time had you shoved preflop. You have to make sure you get 1/3 of your stack in preflop though, otherwise the times that they call and you lose will outweigh the wins you get when they fold. Also, if multiple people call, then the stop and go play might fail, so you can't do it against a lot of loose opponents, hoping that only one will call.
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 09:24 PM
(#16)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,423
oh wow@ they may consider a change of pic will have to think of a good one

ty panicky so I presume its best versus someone who is loose preflop but tight on the flop and who can actually fold..then again im assuming if i miss the flop that they had hit but if we both miss and they hold lets say AQs..then we would want a call

i will have to reread this tomorro when I less tired ty its good stuff
 
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Tue Jul 19, 2011, 10:47 PM
(#17)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolo834 View Post

@trustysam believe you me its not you it is me by the confusion and greek adonis can spot women in the fog !!

am not too keen on Harry Potter and Charlotte married a rugby player (Gavin Henson i think)had 2 or 3 kids but got divorced quite recently....if you want to hear any of her pop songs goto utube and look for crazy chick or call my name (shes really grown up now ) and she even had her own chatshow and shes so down to earth

I assume everyones male lol im the other way

thank you for the well wishes gl2u2
Oh wow, I'll have to check that out as a break from poker - thx for the tip!!!
 
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Wed Jul 20, 2011, 01:57 AM
(#18)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
13BB is technically not on a short stack, that's 10BB or less.
If I'm confident that I can outplay someone after the flop, I'd raise 2.5-3BB preflop... the only other option is to shove, which you did. If I had a few less chips, then it's an auto-shove, but if I think I can outplay someone after the flop, I'll only normal raise.... to get more chips in the pot to win after the flop.
Whether you try to play after the flop or not will also depend on your reads on your opponent. If the read is correct that they will call light.. then shoving is definitely the worst option, that's for sure.
 
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Wed Jul 20, 2011, 02:09 AM
(#19)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
If the read is correct that they will call light.. then shoving is definitely the worst option, that's for sure.
This I don't understand. Are you talking about preflop? If so, then you want to shove if people will call light, because 93% of hands are behind or chop with AK. If you mean on the flop, then again, I think shoving is still good, because your opponent will whiff about 2 times out of 3 and if you're the one shoving, you have fold equity over them. If they're calling you light with a whiffed hand, then you're way in Profitville. Of course, if you open to 2.5x, then outplay your opponent(s) by folding the flop, you're folding away about 18% of your stack. I guess that's not horrible if you're omnicient, but it's pretty hard to get a read strong enough to justify folding as a means of outplaying your opponent on a 13BB stack. I can't call that a bad play, but shoving is guaranteed to be +EV, and I'm not sure you can exceed that EV by opening with the intent to possibly fold, which is really the important thing.

Last edited by PanickyPoker; Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 02:11 AM..
 
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Wed Jul 20, 2011, 07:24 PM
(#20)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,423
ty panicky i think JWk issaying you raise (they call) so you get a bigger pot..then you shove on all flops @ least thats how I am reading it
 

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