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"Brag" about your downswing and tilt

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"Brag" about your downswing and tilt - Wed Jul 20, 2011, 04:29 PM
(#1)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
Hey guys, last night and today hasn't been to pleasant for me... my first big downswing since i made my last deposit. lol i don't feel so good. I'm making this thread to discuss your downswings and tilt's. How bad they were and what you did to fix them. Let your tilt stories begin!
 
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Wed Jul 20, 2011, 04:55 PM
(#2)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Not a tilt story but a question. Was your downswing due to tilt, i.e. induced bad decisions, or just normal variance?

If it is due to tilt you have found a leak you must work on. If its due to variance, poker happens.
 
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Wed Jul 20, 2011, 05:00 PM
(#3)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Why talk about downswings? They're miserable. I think it would be better to discuss strategies to overcome them, both in terms of checking ourselves for bad play, and recovering from the mental and emotional strain of the loss.

1) Lately, I've been tightening up my opening ranges so that I'm only playing about 20% of hands at my 6-max cash games. I've also stopped calling raises unless I'm holding a pocket pair and can setmine profitably. Instead of calling behind with my AQ on the BU, I'm raising it.

In addition to my range tightening, I've been scouring my HEM database for leaks in my play. I'm starting to recognize that I'm often too willing to get my money in preflop, and there are very few cases where that's profitable (holding AK is apparently not one of them, if it's 100BB that I'm getting in). I've also replayed some hands from my database where I gained/lost 50BB or more and asked myself, "WTF was I thinking?" I see that I need to start thinking more about the hands that I play, because going into poker-autopilot isn't just leaving money on the table, it's costing me stacks.

2) I find that hot chocolate helps my tilt.
 
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Wed Jul 20, 2011, 05:04 PM
(#4)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
Not a tilt story but a question. Was your downswing due to tilt, i.e. induced bad decisions, or just normal variance?

If it is due to tilt you have found a leak you must work on. If its due to variance, poker happens.
At first it was more than likely due to normal variance. But i guess that would have triggered my tilt (Making probably not the best decisions) And losing like that kinda makes me want to play more, hence losing more money.
 
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Wed Jul 20, 2011, 05:09 PM
(#5)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
Why talk about downswings? They're miserable. I think it would be better to discuss strategies to overcome them, both in terms of checking ourselves for bad play, and recovering from the mental and emotional strain of the loss..
Haha well said, but i did include that in my first post. Guess i should have put that first lol. And ya i totally agree with you
 
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Wed Jul 20, 2011, 07:08 PM
(#6)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
I think my worries are gone now lol. It seems my downswing turned into an upswing! I played two $1.50 18 man sitngo and placed 1st in both of them (I moved from $3.50 down to $1.50) But then again maybe i shouldn't get too excited it is only two sitngos lol! But now i'm feeling much better and got my confidence back, so i'm pretty sure my tilt has gone... Alls now to do is built my BR back up. Heres a few hands from my recent Sitngo, Feel free to analyse if you wish.

PokerStars Game #64836452304: Tournament #417078947, $1.32+$0.18 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2011/07/20 20:22:04 NT [2011/07/20 18:52:04 ET]
Table '417078947 2' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: the_eagle23 (6265 in chips)
Seat 2: 6456488 (5301 in chips)
Seat 6: quinilof (5089 in chips)
Seat 8: Mariezas (4965 in chips)
Seat 9: batasunis (5380 in chips)
the_eagle23: posts the ante 25
6456488: posts the ante 25
quinilof: posts the ante 25
Mariezas: posts the ante 25
batasunis: posts the ante 25
the_eagle23: posts small blind 100
6456488: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to the_eagle23 [Ts Tc]
quinilof: folds
Mariezas: folds
batasunis: folds
the_eagle23: raises 400 to 600
6456488: calls 400
*** FLOP *** [5s 8d Js]
the_eagle23: bets 800
6456488: calls 800
*** TURN *** [5s 8d Js] [Td]
the_eagle23: bets 1800
6456488: raises 1800 to 3600
the_eagle23: raises 1240 to 4840 and is all-in
6456488: calls 276 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (964) returned to the_eagle23
*** RIVER *** [5s 8d Js Td] [Kh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
the_eagle23: shows [Ts Tc] (three of a kind, Tens)
6456488: shows [Th Jc] (two pair, Jacks and Tens)
the_eagle23 collected 10677 from pot
6456488 finished the tournament in 5th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10677 | Rake 0
Board [5s 8d Js Td Kh]
Seat 1: the_eagle23 (small blind) showed [Ts Tc] and won (10677) with three of a kind, Tens
Seat 2: 6456488 (big blind) showed [Th Jc] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Tens
Seat 6: quinilof folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Mariezas folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: batasunis (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

PokerStars Game #64836510473: Tournament #417078947, $1.32+$0.18 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2011/07/20 20:23:27 NT [2011/07/20 18:53:27 ET]
Table '417078947 2' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: the_eagle23 (11616 in chips)
Seat 6: quinilof (5339 in chips)
Seat 8: Mariezas (4715 in chips)
Seat 9: batasunis (5330 in chips)
the_eagle23: posts the ante 25
quinilof: posts the ante 25
Mariezas: posts the ante 25
batasunis: posts the ante 25
Mariezas: posts small blind 100
batasunis: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to the_eagle23 [Qd Ks]
the_eagle23: raises 400 to 600
quinilof: folds
Mariezas: folds
batasunis: calls 400
*** FLOP *** [4s 7h Kc]
batasunis: checks
the_eagle23: bets 899
batasunis: raises 1501 to 2400
the_eagle23: raises 8591 to 10991 and is all-in
batasunis: calls 2305 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (6286) returned to the_eagle23
*** TURN *** [4s 7h Kc] [Qh]
*** RIVER *** [4s 7h Kc Qh] [5c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
batasunis: shows [Ah Kh] (a pair of Kings)
the_eagle23: shows [Qd Ks] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
the_eagle23 collected 10810 from pot
batasunis finished the tournament in 4th place and received $2.37.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10810 | Rake 0
Board [4s 7h Kc Qh 5c]
Seat 1: the_eagle23 showed [Qd Ks] and won (10810) with two pair, Kings and Queens
Seat 6: quinilof (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Mariezas (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: batasunis (big blind) showed [Ah Kh] and lost with a pair of Kings

PokerStars Game #64836604406: Tournament #417078947, $1.32+$0.18 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (150/300) - 2011/07/20 20:25:50 NT [2011/07/20 18:55:50 ET]
Table '417078947 2' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: the_eagle23 (17446 in chips)
Seat 6: quinilof (5514 in chips)
Seat 8: Mariezas (4040 in chips)
the_eagle23: posts the ante 25
quinilof: posts the ante 25
Mariezas: posts the ante 25
quinilof: posts small blind 150
Mariezas: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to the_eagle23 [Ah Kh]
the_eagle23: raises 300 to 600
quinilof: folds
Mariezas: raises 3415 to 4015 and is all-in
the_eagle23: calls 3415
*** FLOP *** [Kd Jc 5c]
*** TURN *** [Kd Jc 5c] [Th]
*** RIVER *** [Kd Jc 5c Th] [5s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Mariezas: shows [8c As] (a pair of Fives)
the_eagle23: shows [Ah Kh] (two pair, Kings and Fives)
the_eagle23 collected 8255 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8255 | Rake 0
Board [Kd Jc 5c Th 5s]
Seat 1: the_eagle23 (button) showed [Ah Kh] and won (8255) with two pair, Kings and Fives
Seat 6: quinilof (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: Mariezas (big blind) showed [8c As] and lost with a pair of Fives

PokerStars Game #64836654198: Tournament #417078947, $1.32+$0.18 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (150/300) - 2011/07/20 20:27:20 NT [2011/07/20 18:57:20 ET]
Table '417078947 2' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: the_eagle23 (20036 in chips)
Seat 6: quinilof (6964 in chips)
the_eagle23: posts the ante 25
quinilof: posts the ante 25
the_eagle23: posts small blind 150
quinilof: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to the_eagle23 [5d 6h]
the_eagle23: calls 150
quinilof: checks
*** FLOP *** [5s 6c Qd]
quinilof: bets 6639 and is all-in
the_eagle23: calls 6639
*** TURN *** [5s 6c Qd] [6d]
*** RIVER *** [5s 6c Qd 6d] [Ts]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
quinilof: shows [9h 8s] (a pair of Sixes)
the_eagle23: shows [5d 6h] (a full house, Sixes full of Fives)
the_eagle23 collected 13928 from pot
quinilof finished the tournament in 2nd place and received $7.12.
the_eagle23 wins the tournament and receives $9.52 - congratulations!
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 13928 | Rake 0
Board [5s 6c Qd 6d Ts]
Seat 1: the_eagle23 (button) (small blind) showed [5d 6h] and won (13928) with a full house, Sixes full of Fives
Seat 6: quinilof (big blind) showed [9h 8s] and lost with a pair of Sixes

Even though my downswing has gone i still want people to post ways to overcome tilt and tell stories so that when people are experiencing tilts and downswings they have a place to turn to.
 
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Thu Jul 21, 2011, 12:00 AM
(#7)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,284
Three hours is your idea of a downswing??
 
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Thu Jul 21, 2011, 01:43 AM
(#8)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joy7108 View Post
Three hours is your idea of a downswing??


Eagle, I like how you turned 'whine' into 'brag' lol! Glad to see things are better!!

The frustrating part is when you've got somebody on the ropes, and they suck out some miracle win, like 3,4,5 times ... and then when you're on the ropes and go all in with QQ they suck out a win with 44 and you're out. Like why wasn't I given a reprieve sort of a deal? lol

The hard part is knowing what's a leak and what's a downswing. It's not always that easy to tell. Like I want to get better, but sometimes it's not always easy to know what to do differently.

On the plus side, I just had a really nice 'heater', so I finally did get my turn ... still a net negative, but it was a nice change of pace

Maybe this thread should be in the bad beat section though, because I can totally understand how it's not a thread that some people will want to see - because moods can be infectious and stuff. I guess if it belongs more in another thread the mods'll move it though

Good luck at the tables everybody!!

 
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Thu Jul 21, 2011, 02:25 AM
(#9)
Deleted user
Im looking to beat tilt in the month of August.

Here is what I will be using:

- rubberband
Snap any time I have a need to gamble or make a bad play

-pushups/pullips etc.
Will do these any time I felt like making that gamble

-Mental Diary
Will start keeping a diary of my mindset before I sit down and after and relate it to my bankroll

-Bankroll Management
All this year I have barely put any money online due to the unstable situation of online.
As of August I will give my self enough funds to play comfortably at a lvl I prefer.

Swings are something you get used to and have to live with but can make you highs and lows balance out with more controlled play.
 
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Thu Jul 21, 2011, 02:55 AM
(#10)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
^^^
Those are good tips Cookie. I saw the tips you gave somebody else in another thread about micro-stakes, and tried going over my hand histories. I decided I may be calling a bit too much post-flop, chasing draws or not wanting to let go when I feel like somebody's bluffing, etc. That kind of stuff adds up I think ... then I don't have nearly as much stack to cushion the blows.

 
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Thu Jul 21, 2011, 04:03 AM
(#11)
Pinworm45's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 4
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Well, I'm in the middle of one.

To start, I'm fairly new to poker. I always liked it, but none of my friends IRL play so I never really got the chance. I played some play money poker, but I was so new and terrible that I didn't get much enjoyment.

But recently, 3 months ago, a friend of mine gave me 5$ to play on Pokerstars. I researched, on this site, and turned that 5$ into 25$: something I'm kind of proud of, even if it's not much.

I've played exclusively micro SnGs Fixed Limit, and have about a 70% in-the-money percentage - and every loss was placing third (playing at 6 person tables which I enjoy more than 9 person).

Tonight, I decided to try an actual multi table tournament, 10$ buy in, 500$ gauranteed.

And I was humiliated. Everything went wrong for me. Every hand I folded turned into a Full House. I lost AK and even AA many times to stupid cards that I have no idea why anyone would play. I got top straights only for them to turn into flushes for my enemies. I was the sixth person eliminated.

I play Tight-Aggressive and I feel I play it decently. But I was just destroyed. Bam, bank roll cut in half.

After that, I played 2 SnGs. One, I finished early, for the same reasons - I was getting killer hands that were just getting destroyed by people who would play garbage like 3 8 os for some reason and win. Over and over. The other, I came in third.

At this point, I took a break. I've learned to manage tilt, I feel like, and I knew I had to relax, think clearly, and just play my best poker. Which I continued to do.

...unsuccessfully. More losses.

I'm now down to 8$.

I've had losses before and managed, but this is my first Downswing. I don't feel like I'm tilting, but it's really frustrating. and I'm quickly approaching the point where I won't have enough money to play anymore, which is even more frustrating - especially since my country doesn't allow me to put money into the game, so I can't add more.

Hopefully it improves!

Edit: Gets better? Watch this!

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/rep...ash=228EDEFAEF

Spoilers: pocket 10s, 3 9s on the flop, ten on the turn, giving me 10s full of 9s, and what does the enemy have?

A NINE. 9 in his hand and flops four of a kind, to beat my full house. This is the kind of night im having.

Last edited by Pinworm45; Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:17 AM..
 
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Thu Jul 21, 2011, 09:51 AM
(#12)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by joy7108 View Post
Three hours is your idea of a downswing??
I feel a downswing can be as long as it wants, it could be a week, 2 weeks, months, luckily for me like you said it was only 3 hours. Haha, i'd rather 3 hours than 3 months! hmm..... now about that upswing....... I HOPE THAT LASTS 3 YEARS!
 
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Thu Jul 21, 2011, 09:59 AM
(#13)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post


Eagle, I like how you turned 'whine' into 'brag' lol! Glad to see things are better!!

The frustrating part is when you've got somebody on the ropes, and they suck out some miracle win, like 3,4,5 times ... and then when you're on the ropes and go all in with QQ they suck out a win with 44 and you're out. Like why wasn't I given a reprieve sort of a deal? lol

The hard part is knowing what's a leak and what's a downswing. It's not always that easy to tell. Like I want to get better, but sometimes it's not always easy to know what to do differently.

On the plus side, I just had a really nice 'heater', so I finally did get my turn ... still a net negative, but it was a nice change of pace

Maybe this thread should be in the bad beat section though, because I can totally understand how it's not a thread that some people will want to see - because moods can be infectious and stuff. I guess if it belongs more in another thread the mods'll move it though

Good luck at the tables everybody!!

Haha, pretty clever eh? And determining a leak from a downswing? Well i feel if you've been playing consistenly for the past XX number of Days, Weeks, etc and suddenly it just seems like whatever you do you end up losing it has to be a downswing right? Unless of course you changed up your game a bit and it's not working. That's just my opinion though.
 
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Thu Jul 21, 2011, 10:05 AM
(#14)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted user View Post
......
-Bankroll Management
All this year I have barely put any money online due to the unstable situation of online.
As of August I will give my self enough funds to play comfortably at a lvl I prefer.
.......
Dude...please tell me this isn't true. You! Depositing??!! Say it isn't so...or are you that addicted to cookies?
If you are depositing then I would put bankroll management above all else.
 
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Thu Jul 21, 2011, 10:27 AM
(#15)
Freckldgator's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinworm45 View Post

- especially since my country doesn't allow me to put money into the game, so I can't add more.
Hello, Pinworm. Your profile says Canada....since when can Canadians not deposit?
Did I miss something?
 
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Thu Jul 21, 2011, 04:06 PM
(#16)
Pinworm45's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 4
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freckldgator View Post
Hello, Pinworm. Your profile says Canada....since when can Canadians not deposit?
Did I miss something?
Well I tried adding money from my two different credit cards and support told me that those companies don't allow me to put in money to gaming websites in Canada. Maybe others do or you could probably find a way around it, but the point is that it's a bit of a hassle. At least for me, since my 2 credit cards aren't accepted.
 
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Thu Jul 21, 2011, 05:05 PM
(#17)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_eagle23 View Post
Haha, pretty clever eh? And determining a leak from a downswing? Well i feel if you've been playing consistenly for the past XX number of Days, Weeks, etc and suddenly it just seems like whatever you do you end up losing it has to be a downswing right? Unless of course you changed up your game a bit and it's not working. That's just my opinion though.
Yeah, there's those ...

(1) Game's stayed the same - won before, losing now
(2) Game was the same, but has changed due to tilt, and might be making things worse


But if there's not a lot of #2, I think you have to not just compare it with play where you were winning, but look at the net profits over the long-term? Because like you have to weed out the possibility that the winning streaks were due to heaters?

Like if a player's net profit over the long term (through both heaters and downswings) is a net negative, then that would seem to point to a leak of some sort? Like I guess it's also possible that even when things appear to be going right, and the money is coming in, there might still be 'leaks' (ie less than optimal profit intake, assuming the player isn't losing a lot when in a downswing due to tilt)?

I guess most of us just tend to think more about leaks though when we're losing, or something I want to learn to (maximize) profit in the aggregate - like keep the losses to a minimum, and try and make the profits the maximum. First I have to learn to be profitable (LOL! ), but like I also want to learn how to maximize profits after that. I guess that's why I'm interested in discerning downswings from leaks, and upswings from good play, etc.

Last edited by TrustySam; Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:20 PM..
 
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Thu Jul 21, 2011, 06:21 PM
(#18)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
Yeah, there's those ...

(1) Game's stayed the same - won before, losing now
(2) Game was the same, but has changed due to tilt, and might be making things worse


But if there's not a lot of #2, I think you have to not just compare it with play where you were winning, but look at the net profits over the long-term? Because like you have to weed out the possibility that the winning streaks were due to heaters?

Like if a player's net profit over the long term (through both heaters and downswings) is a net negative, then that would seem to point to a leak of some sort? Like I guess it's also possible that even when things appear to be going right, and the money is coming in, there might still be 'leaks' (ie less than optimal profit intake, assuming the player isn't losing a lot when in a downswing due to tilt)?

I guess most of us just tend to think more about leaks though when we're losing, or something I want to learn to (maximize) profit in the aggregate - like keep the losses to a minimum, and try and make the profits the maximum. First I have to learn to be profitable (LOL! ), but like I also want to learn how to maximize profits after that. I guess that's why I'm interested in discerning downswings from leaks, and upswings from good play, etc.
Haha very good point sam! i guess most of us do only think about leaks when we are losing, heck some people don't look at them at all! As for people's profit being net negative over long term there is obviously a leak of some sort. Everyone has leaks, it's just how it is. If a player didn't shouldn't they be winning 90 to 95% of the time? Discerning downswings from leaks and upswings from good play... another GREAT question. As i see it a player having leaks means their net negative or has minimum profit. A player having downswings will have their losses minimized and their profits maxed (assuming that they are a good player). Upswings from Good play would be vice versa. Again just my opinion
 
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Fri Jul 22, 2011, 01:26 AM
(#19)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_eagle23 View Post
Haha very good point sam! i guess most of us do only think about leaks when we are losing, heck some people don't look at them at all! As for people's profit being net negative over long term there is obviously a leak of some sort. Everyone has leaks, it's just how it is. If a player didn't shouldn't they be winning 90 to 95% of the time? Discerning downswings from leaks and upswings from good play... another GREAT question. As i see it a player having leaks means their net negative or has minimum profit. A player having downswings will have their losses minimized and their profits maxed (assuming that they are a good player). Upswings from Good play would be vice versa. Again just my opinion
Oh yeah, that's very true - not even Phil Ivey gets it right 100% of the time

Wow, is he ever good though - he comes pretty close!


Awesome point - I guess it's a work in progress for all of us. Maybe we all just sort of get better in little fits and starts over time, even with the upswings and downswings and all that? Like with practice and stuff - the new Premier League ought to be interesting with only the top players. Nothing like some formidable competition to bring out the best in all of us

(Soooooo glad the downswing appears to be over for now Hope things are still on the up for you too!! )
 
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Fri Jul 22, 2011, 05:18 AM
(#20)
zlizard's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_eagle23 View Post
Hey guys, last night and today hasn't been to pleasant for me... my first big downswing since i made my last deposit. lol i don't feel so good. I'm making this thread to discuss your downswings and tilt's. How bad they were and what you did to fix them. Let your tilt stories begin!
some good points ITT, I was waiting for a tilt / downswing post from someone once the Milestone thread started =]

I had a 9 month+ downswing back in '05, '06? PLO can be brutal, you can take a look at daleroxxu's blog for posts on running way behind all in EV for a long time. My best downswing advice is to take a few days / weeks off, go back to some poker reading.

Worst advice - bombard fora / friends with bad beat HH; I made that mistake and lost some mates over at Pokah back in the day after the 5th month of fml run-bad. If you do want to discuss the hands / some hands, best advice is to ask someone you know & respect and agree for some analysis, then pick a job-lot of hands for discussion.

Yeah - runbad is measured in months / 10,000's hands imo =]
 

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