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Hey the hand replayer is really cool - oh and where did I go wrong here?

 
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Hey the hand replayer is really cool - oh and where did I go wrong here? - Sun Jul 24, 2011, 06:45 AM
(#1)
VanSquash's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
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* I should note that I wasn't playing very many hands at this table at all. I'm really not sure why he thought his hand was good. ???

 
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Sun Jul 24, 2011, 11:47 AM
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JWK24's Avatar
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he didn't think his hand was good... but....

1) you've only got basically 5BB left. That means your shove range is alot more than what it normally would be (any pair, any suited A or K, any broadway, suited connectors, any big connectors, suited 1-2 gap, etc). Yes, you had a premium hand, but most will be pushing with a ton less than AKs.

2) it didn't cost the opp much of their stack to call you, only about 10%, which isn't much to them and can also create a table image that they are looser than they really are (if they were playing tighter)... or fits right into their plan if they're a calling station. If they lose, they still have 50BB left, which is a plenty big enough stack to play with.
 
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Sun Jul 24, 2011, 01:47 PM
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JDean's Avatar
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[QUOTE=JWK24;291916]he didn't think his hand was good... but....
[QUOTE]

I kinda disagree JWK, but not TOO much!

Villain had K hi, and while the kicker was very very weak, that does not necessarily mean he is NOT "ahead" of a 5BB UTG shove. Afterall, you DID hit the nail on the head when you said anyone would think the Hero's shove range SHOULD be wider here...K3 is "ahead" of hands like JT/QJ/QT etc, and the amount from the blinds lays about the right price in case K3 is facing something like A4 thru AQ.

so I agree with what you said JWK, EXCEPT that the villain did not necessarily think he was ahead...

I think the villain knew there is a strong chance he wasn't, but there was also a possibility he was, and in most spots he is not going to be dominated and denied odds.

NOTE: I'm not saying the OP did anything WRONG in this hand at all, quite the contrary. If this is a PSO event, AKs is plenty good enough to stand on this short. In league play, the risk could have easily prevented blind steals on a slightly LARGER stack than 5BB to avoid being this short when a "real" hand did appear.

In a normal MTT though, there probably could have been chances somewhere at picking up blinds to avoid being this short (unless the stack depletion came via a hand loss). By 5BB though, as JWK stated your stack has lost a ton of its shove value, and you ARE going to get called a lot wider. Soemtimes when you are called you are ahead, but lose anyway.
 
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Sun Jul 24, 2011, 04:19 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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if it was me, I would have thought... small portion of my chips and if nothing else, if they have an ace (very probable), then I hopefully have 2 live cards.
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 02:06 AM
(#5)
VanSquash's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 234
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Hey guys thanks for the feedback. I guess I consider it a weak call on his part as a tighter player could be pushing with pocket pairs anything from 33 up to AA or AK AQ AJ A10 suited aces...

If he does consider that he's up against any pocket pair then perhaps only the K is live which it turns out that it wasn't ... he was dead to the three which magically appeared on the river

I realize there was little fold equity left in my stack , but isn't calling off even 5bbs on his part a potential long term bleed... even if you know are calling from behind.
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 03:56 AM
(#6)
Oku_Ha_FooLs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 188
This just looks like a bad beat story to me why post? of coarse you did the right thing shoving here, its a bad call by him IMO, although as mentioned above by JWK24 your perceived shoving range here does widen since you are short........however i still think calling K-3 off is marginal? or bad? hmm either way theres nothing to complain about or to analyse..........

Unlucky pal
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 04:19 AM
(#7)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oku_Ha_FooLs View Post
This just looks like a bad beat story to me why post? of coarse you did the right thing shoving here, its a bad call by him IMO, although as mentioned above by JWK24 your perceived shoving range here does widen since you are short........however i still think calling K-3 off is marginal? or bad? hmm either way theres nothing to complain about or to analyse..........

Unlucky pal
If Hero had 10BB+, I'd agree...K3 ain't worth it.

5BB, vs an 11k stack...I am probably gunna double clutch, then not try it myself, but I do not think I can really fault someone who thinks differently from the BB. From the SB or btn...very iffy, BB though is calling 4BB to win 6.5BB, and is right about where he wants to be with a 60/40 shot. BB also has the benefit of closing the action, that SB lacks. So I'm not "strenously defending" someone who will go with K3 here, but I could understand it.
 

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