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Should I have bet this differently?

 
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Should I have bet this differently? - Sun Jul 24, 2011, 10:57 PM
(#1)
JDubyaTas's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 13
Interested in what I have done wrong on this hand? Betting or should have seen writing on wall with big bet after river?

PokerStars Game #65031929632: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10 USD) - 2011/07/25 12:26:19 AEST [2011/07/24 22:26:19 ET]
Table 'Saldanha II' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: j2twitto ($10.93 in chips)
Seat 2: JDubyaTas ($9.69 in chips)
Seat 3: elvirastreet ($4 in chips)
Seat 4: katrin900421 ($10 in chips)
Seat 5: Plahoy ($14.36 in chips)
Seat 6: Sascha9574 ($9.20 in chips)
Sascha9574: posts small blind $0.05
j2twitto: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to JDubyaTas [Ah Kh]
JDubyaTas: raises $0.20 to $0.30
elvirastreet: folds
katrin900421: folds
Plahoy: folds
Sascha9574: folds
j2twitto: calls $0.20
*** FLOP *** [Qs 5c Qh]
j2twitto: checks
JDubyaTas: bets $0.50
j2twitto: calls $0.50
*** TURN *** [Qs 5c Qh] [5h]
j2twitto: checks
JDubyaTas: bets $1
j2twitto: calls $1
*** RIVER *** [Qs 5c Qh 5h] [7h]
j2twitto: bets $2.60
JDubyaTas: calls $2.60
*** SHOW DOWN ***
j2twitto: shows [Qd Th] (a full house, Queens full of Fives)
JDubyaTas: mucks hand
j2twitto collected $8.42 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.85 | Rake $0.43
Board [Qs 5c Qh 5h 7h]
Seat 1: j2twitto (big blind) showed [Qd Th] and won ($8.42) with a full house, Queens full of Fives
Seat 2: JDubyaTas mucked [Ah Kh]
Seat 3: elvirastreet folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: katrin900421 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Plahoy (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Sascha9574 (small blind) folded before Flop
 
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Sun Jul 24, 2011, 11:21 PM
(#2)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I don't think you've provided enough information to judge whether you played well or badly, because different players behave in very different ways in this situation. A fold on the river would not have been bad, but the best piece of advice I can give you is to note that this player check/calls flopped trips on the flop and turn, then donk leads the river. Actually type that note and put it into your Pokerstars note database. Continue to take notes like that, especially against people you run into frequently.
 
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Sun Jul 24, 2011, 11:24 PM
(#3)
Deleted user
I know its hard to think about these things well you play but think about this.

Is he aggresive or passive?
If he is passive shutdown,if he bluffs and floats I adjust on the turn depending on reads.

You have to ask what some one is calling with on the flop?
He called your bet preflop which narrows his range a little.
I would be thinking Acerag(they hope the board has two pairs),Queenx(AQ,QJ maybe suited combos),small pair(66-99).

So I would slow down on the turn without any reads.

If they check the turn I might stab the river,it also depends on reads.
Would lean towards checking behind on the turn and if he checks river putting in a 2/3 pot bet.

As played I fold river but I also would have checked turn as a slight pot control.
It opens you up to river bluffs but it will also save you money in the long run.
 
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Sun Jul 24, 2011, 11:25 PM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
calls by them on the flop and especially the turn is one of two things... a full house or missed flush. The river gives the flush but since you have the nut flush, I'd rule that one out.

reads would play alot into it.

Last edited by JWK24; Sun Jul 24, 2011 at 11:27 PM.. Reason: corrected.. player hit flush on river
 
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Sun Jul 24, 2011, 11:30 PM
(#5)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
I don't think you've provided enough information to judge whether you played well or badly, because different players behave in very different ways in this situation. A fold on the river would not have been bad, but the best piece of advice I can give you is to note that this player check/calls flopped trips on the flop and turn, then donk leads the river. Actually type that note and put it into your Pokerstars note database. Continue to take notes like that, especially against people you run into frequently.
Thats a great point.
I find a lot of players that slowplay like this do it over and over.
You bet they call,shut it down.
 
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Sun Jul 24, 2011, 11:55 PM
(#6)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I'm think now that slowing down on the turn makes a whole lot of sense because you're in position. If they calling the flop and turn, you've manipulated most villains' ranges to become ranges that beat you. If you check back the turn, you'll lose less like Cookies said, but you'll also gain in river bluffs that you choose to call. If you bet the turn, you're generally getting a fold from bad opponents, a call from hands that beat you or chop with you but never lose to you, or you're getting a raise for value, or sometimes a bluff raise from decent players. What you're generally not getting is a call from worse, which is something you probably want when you bet in position.
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 01:12 AM
(#7)
JDubyaTas's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 13
Thanks guys. I really appreciate the feedback and as I am only relatively new to this all of the above helps. From my limited experience and from taking a couple of beats such as this one extreme caution is required where there is a pair on the board for stronger hands than flush or two pairs.

The read is important and to be honest I can't recall where this guy was at but will take a note of these things more closely in future. I use Pokertracker to assist but really only use it for Preflop analysis given the speed at which the tables run but I do know this is a little dangerous.
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 03:14 AM
(#8)
Oku_Ha_FooLs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 188
The river should be an easy fold at this level..................what are u beating that he may be betting for value? nothing

then the quistion comes is Villain good enough to float OOP twice with air to just barrel the river............. pretty rare that he could be good enough to turn his flush into a bluff.......... really a double float at this level? nooo

Villains flop calling range is so hard to put bluffs in.......... and his turn calling range is even harder to put bluffs in his ..........when villain flats the turn our percieved range of villain should involve a 5, a Q, and flushes i think he may give up A highs at this point.......
Also what is Villains hand selcetion like? What kinds of hans does he play OOP? brodway hands and pairs? any suit connectors? or doesn't get out of line and plays a standard ABC game? its all important to note in the future

But given Board texture there is a flush out there so
and for him to bet the river there villains percieved range of u would have to be flush's, mid pairs, a 5, a Q, over pairs, 2nd pair...........do you really think he would try to bluff you off a Q or 5...and even so what are his bluffing freqeuncies? really important to note for both OOP and in position.....id say in his mind he wants value from the bottom of ur range that u may check back for showdown value alot....A highs, mid pairs, over pairs and flushes sometimes........i think its always for value every single time at this level...

It makes sense for villain not to check raise the flop n turn not to lose value from ur A highs, over pairs flush's ect........and i think evidently given ur hand its hard for him to have a flush draw worth C/raising, but even so i think he would be check raising his flush draws there on the flop unless hes a bad station.........(not enuf info on what kind of player villain is).......


So lets see whats the best way to play this:

Your double barrel is fine, but when he donk bets the river what choices do you have?.........

1. Given standard 100bb stacks you could repop him and try to move him off a 5...lol prob not hapning....hes never folding a Q here tho imo hahahha

2. You could call and lose a lot of the time for reasons given above

3. Fold, there is absoluteley nothing wrong with folding here although i know it's really annoying when you get donk bet and sometimes curiosity gets the best of us ae hehe

yeah sorry forgot to mention its all very player dependent and all opponents are different HOWEVER these micro stakes most people play the same way really not much to worry bout........

Goodluck

More discipline and hours should do the trick

hope that was a bit of help friend

Last edited by Oku_Ha_FooLs; Mon Jul 25, 2011 at 03:52 AM.. Reason: missed out a part read hand wrong
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 03:30 AM
(#9)
Oku_Ha_FooLs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 188
lol wow my spelling and grammar is slightly retarded hahah sorry guys
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 03:46 AM
(#10)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubyaTas View Post
I use Pokertracker to assist but really only use it for Preflop analysis given the speed at which the tables run but I do know this is a little dangerous.
Using your HUD for only preflop analysis isn't all that bad. You generally need several hundred hands on a player before you can get any real data on most postflop stats. And I've read in many places that if you focus too much on stats rather than developing reads and practicing your postflop skills, your game tends to suffer. I don't even use the flop c-bet% on my HUD anymore, because I personally just didn't find it useful. It's a matter of preference, though.
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 03:50 AM
(#11)
Oku_Ha_FooLs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 188
couldn't agree more panicky er dont really play online tho im a live player, jam MTT's online tho for fun :P variance is killing me atm tho :/
 

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