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Call all in in a cash game

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Call all in in a cash game - Mon Jul 25, 2011, 01:58 PM
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Buffaloon's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 29
I was wondering which hands I should be calling all in with, pre-flop as a long term strategy (excluding against maniacs and rocks). Or which hands I should re-raise to all in if the opponents bet is high enough to justify it. This is against 1 opponent rather than several all ins before me.

AA and KK are obvious. How about AKs and AK? And how about AQs AQ QQ or JJ? I'd love to hear people's thoughts. Thanks a lot
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 04:06 PM
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Cairn Destop's Avatar
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Somewhere in this specific forum, I did a personal study of the Group One and Group Two hands. You might find the results enlightening. Hopefully, it will inspire you to do the same thing and learn which of these hands are worthy of pursuit.

To answer your question directly, I would be willing to call an all-in with any of the pairs in this group. I would not be adverse to the reraise that forces me into an all-in, though the old hedgehog admits to being a coward at times. I will suggest you never go all-in with Ace-King, suited or not, pre flop. Contrary to what the pros say, I believe this a poor starting hand, unless you can see the flop.

Ace-Queen is a dicy call. Best to do it post flop. Fold it if you don't catch something.

Of course, these are my opinions. Yours may differ. Feel free to try either or neither.
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 05:06 PM
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Buffaloon's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairn Destop View Post
Somewhere in this specific forum, I did a personal study of the Group One and Group Two hands. You might find the results enlightening. Hopefully, it will inspire you to do the same thing and learn which of these hands are worthy of pursuit.

To answer your question directly, I would be willing to call an all-in with any of the pairs in this group. I would not be adverse to the reraise that forces me into an all-in, though the old hedgehog admits to being a coward at times. I will suggest you never go all-in with Ace-King, suited or not, pre flop. Contrary to what the pros say, I believe this a poor starting hand, unless you can see the flop.

Ace-Queen is a dicy call. Best to do it post flop. Fold it if you don't catch something.

Of course, these are my opinions. Yours may differ. Feel free to try either or neither.
Ahh I'll have a search for the thread then, cheers And yeah, from my limited experience I think I agree, I suppose AK isn't a made hand preflop, and I'm probably getting the slightly poorer end of a coinflip most of the time.
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 06:43 PM
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Cairn Destop's Avatar
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It is one reason I cannot fathom how it can be classified as Group One. Sure, Ace-King looks high, and it does beat all unpaired combinations. Unfortunately, poker goes beyond the initial hole cards. With Ace-King, you're restricted to a closed-end straight. In most instances, you'll be chasing the inside card for the run. If suited doesn't catch, you'll chase a 4-card flush that might not hit. Most boards have at least three suits showing, which means your odds are no better than holding two suited cards.

I'll play them to the flop, but I'm one who folds this combo very fast. Just check out the stats I have for their "success rate."

When you see that thread, I do hope you accept my challenge. If nothing else, that exercise will convince you the site is random regarding the deals, and monster hands are good, but not golden.

Best of luck to you in the League. If we Americans ever do come back, just one word of advice:

FEAR THE HEDGEHOG.
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 06:48 PM
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Cairn Destop's Avatar
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http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...ole-card-stats.


Went and found the thread. Link is above.
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 07:54 PM
(#6)
Buffaloon's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairn Destop View Post
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...ole-card-stats.


Went and found the thread. Link is above.
Ahh cheers but found it myself anyway Very interesting. I take it you'd still raise with it from any position? Would you call standard sized re-raises?
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 09:30 PM
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Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
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Depends on which hand "it" is. For the pocket pairs, top three I'll push for all the chips I must, and from any position. The lower two, jacks and tens, I prefer calling late. Depending on my stake and the number of players still in the hand, possibly raising. Too many overcards seem to hit if the number of players seeing the flop is greater than three.

For the hands that are non-paired, K-Q - A-Q - A-J, I'll try limping, but will call a reasonable bet from any position. Reasonable being defined as a percentage of my stake, which changes as the game goes deeper. Later the game, higher the percentage.

Reraising is another issue. For the top three pairs, I'm willing to raise if I think doing so will get one or more players to fold when four or more are calling the initial bet. If the betting is with just one other player, I'll go for a modest raise, (max of BB), with any of the top five paired. But in such cases, I'm hoping the player calls. Raising is dicy as too big a raise and you get just the blinds. The idea being to extract the maximum chips by enticing the player to see the flop. Doesn't always work, which you'll notice was my main problem.

The non-paired top ten hands are ones I prefer not raising. I'll do it if the other player is short stacked as a way of forcing him/her out of the hand, or all-in. I'll not try that when there are several players in the hand. In my mind, calling is the best way to get more chips into the pot. A cheap flop is also easier folding if the unpaired hand doesn't catch. My thought is to find that middle ground between too cheap and possible gutting.

Of course, this isn't a hard rule. Nothing you learn in the classes comes as an absolute. It can depend on the table play to date. If I'm finding the player(s) willing to play for the draw, I'll make it cost pre flop when I have any of the top five hands. Give me somebody who has the big stick and bullies, I'll limp even with pocket aces one-on-one. Have me short and I might be willing to push it all-in with those K-Q unsuited hands pre flop.

In short, every hand is sufficiently different from every other hand that the word "unique" can be applied. If such situations did have hard rules, we wouldn't have players posting hands and asking what they did wrong, or what they should have done. There would be no luck factor in the game.

How many times haven't you seen, or heard, somebody calling an all-in with pocket aces and losing to an ATC player holding a Group 8 hand? Applying the "rules," the aces should win. Since poker is a game of chance, you can lose with the strongest starting hand. Skill comes from knowing when the odds favor you, but understanding the reciprical number. (AA = 85% chance of winning and 15% chance of lossing.) We tend to forget the first since it is expected, and having the other instances engraved on our minds until we think that the norm.
 
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Tue Jul 26, 2011, 06:46 AM
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Since: Jul 2011
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If you go all in with AK,, AQ, AJ etc you are very likely to be called by someone holding at least an ace meaning one of your outs is already taken away from you. If two people go all in with AK and get called by someone holding pocket tens the tens are 57.86% fav to take the pot down.
 

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