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razz hand

 
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razz hand - Mon Jul 25, 2011, 04:48 PM
(#1)
ronh1967's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 376
heres a hand from a razz cash game i played a few weeks ago when i was getting my 150 vpps,notice how much action is going on in this hand
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 06:05 PM
(#2)
FarrahnsMom's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronh1967 View Post
heres a hand from a razz cash game i played a few weeks ago when i was getting my 150 vpps,notice how much action is going on in this hand
Hi ronh1967 ...i sure havent a clue whats going on in that game ..it must be crappiest hand wins lol my father and his buddies play a live game that looks similar...i would go broke playing that gamegl F.M
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 06:45 PM
(#3)
ronh1967's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarrahnsMom View Post
Hi ronh1967 ...i sure havent a clue whats going on in that game ..it must be crappiest hand wins lol my father and his buddies play a live game that looks similar...i would go broke playing that gamegl F.M
in this game the worst hand wins after i won that pot only 3 players remained and every one left,i guess when your to good lol people leave lol is was joking about being to good,my guess was tha the person that put his last ,45c in on 7th street the last cars delt i think he lost his whole bank roll on that hand
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 08:07 PM
(#4)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
That much action in the hand, you with a decent 3 card 7, and 3 of your 16 outs (to a made 7) burnt?

Not saying I do NOT take this flop, especially with opponents who do not play well on 4th and 5th street, but I know I'm not crazy about it. GH though.
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 11:29 PM
(#5)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
I like a lot of your action early in the hand. Pre--all betting, 4th, 5th ..here ashazi should have repopped it, but I don't think you were leaving if he does that. 6th and 7th could go two ways. One like you did it, betting what could easily be the best hand on 6th st., and when he just calls, it is great knowledge to pop 7th like you do. The other line I sometime take there is probably bet or check/call on 6th, and check/call on 7th.
Nice hand.
 
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Mon Jul 25, 2011, 11:34 PM
(#6)
Oku_Ha_FooLs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 188
you played the hand well
 
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Tue Jul 26, 2011, 12:58 AM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
I'm sort of with JDean on this one. If your opponents are idiots then your play is ok... against sane players though your hand is extremely marginal getting this action on 3rd and again on 5th. Vs solid players you're always behind on 5th in fact. Over all a much more marginal spot than one might at first think for a smooth 7 on 3rd, which intrinsically has good value but given the door cards and action in this hand, not so much. A hold'em equivalent to this hand might be like picking up JJ utg and raising, and it comes back to you 4b now your J's are much, much more marginal in nature.
 
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Tue Jul 26, 2011, 03:33 AM
(#8)
ronh1967's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 376
thanks for the input everyone and iv always been confused with starting hands in this game like what to play,i always thought good hands were 3cards 8 or under,this is one game i wouldnt mind learning more deeper since it is a fun game to play,now with the videos i think wahlbacks 8 game video might help out here with razz being part off 8game.once again dave thanks for the hand replayer tip now i know how to use the hand replayer
 
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Tue Jul 26, 2011, 04:00 AM
(#9)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronh1967 View Post
thanks for the input everyone and iv always been confused with starting hands in this game like what to play,i always thought good hands were 3cards 8 or under,this is one game i wouldnt mind learning more deeper since it is a fun game to play,now with the videos i think wahlbacks 8 game video might help out here with razz being part off 8game.once again dave thanks for the hand replayer tip now i know how to use the hand replayer
Razz Step #1: It is about live cards for your draws.
Your 7 is decent, but with 2 x 6's, an A, and a 5 in the up cards here, your 7 may not be great.
As I said, I'm probably taking it to 4th St. based on point #2, but I am not entirely convinced I'm on the best now.

Razz Step #2: It is about "smoothness" of your draws.
An A28 in a LOT better than a 258.
So with your A37 it is really the "strength" of your A3, and the possibility it holds for making a "smooth" 7 (or better) I like, not the value of the 7 itself.
Same goes for 3 card 8 starts...with this action I would almost certainly be mucking a lot of 8's (almost all of 'em tbh) except against the most rampant rag starters.

Razz Step #3: It is all about "reading" your opponents' draws.
In razz, all you have is a POTENTIAL hand before 5th street.
You gotta make your decisions on your door card and 5th street mainly; if you see 4th, you usually should see 5th as well.
If you bet/call 5th, you are quite often going to be getting a draw price to see 7th street, so you will at least pay for 6th.
The fact your opponents all bricked on 4th is good for you, and you really should bet there, but they certainly did not brick 5th (either of those left).
At that point you could be facing a wheel draw and a 6 draw, while you are holding "just" your 74 draw.
Since calling that raise may well "stick" you for the 6th st. bet too, that is where you really have to judge how likely one (or both) are to hold a BETTER draw than yours.

Hope it helps.
 
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Tue Jul 26, 2011, 10:42 AM
(#10)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Boards are extremely important in razz. (82)A is much stronger than (A2)8 because the "weak" card in your hand is revealed on the board in the latter. In the case of this hand with the board cards and action, it's likely someone is drawing better than you are. A rough 6 on 3rd is even a small favorite over a smooth 7 even though you've only got 3 cards. Starting hand strengths are all relative. A 9 is a strong starting hand if the opponent door cards are all paint. An 8 is a weak starting hand if several opponents are getting involved with baby door cards.
 
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Tue Jul 26, 2011, 10:54 AM
(#11)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
** Moved **
 
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Tue Jul 26, 2011, 03:33 PM
(#12)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Boards are extremely important in razz. (82)A is much stronger than (A2)8 because the "weak" card in your hand is revealed on the board in the latter. In the case of this hand with the board cards and action, it's likely someone is drawing better than you are. A rough 6 on 3rd is even a small favorite over a smooth 7 even though you've only got 3 cards. Starting hand strengths are all relative. A 9 is a strong starting hand if the opponent door cards are all paint. An 8 is a weak starting hand if several opponents are getting involved with baby door cards.
Yeah, agree 100%. This is true for all stud variants really (of course it would be AA 4 is "better" than A4 A in stud!).

I was talking re start hands above, but I did "toss around" mentioning the increased importance of representing certain hands in Razz. I am glad you popped this out Dave...

Since Razz IS a game of draws, there can be a lot of benefit in having your low cards showing. When you show a 3 card 8 or 9 top on 5th, it puts the opponent with a 2 card 8 and a J to a pretty stern "test" if he is even semi-literate in razz. The way you "leverage" this is with early aggression.

By the way, that is the main reason why I felt the action in this hand was a bit "heavy" to really "like" the A3 7 start you had. While a single opponent with a door under 7 is almost a "no-brainer" 4th street go (because "domination" does not work the same in Stud as HE, and your A3 does carry "strength"; you can easily dump a 4th st. brick on 5th if the villain "hits low"), but with the heavy action AND 2 villains, you are now needing them BOTH to brick to be "safe".
 
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Tue Jul 26, 2011, 03:46 PM
(#13)
PaidInFull6's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 342
Personally, I cant stand being forced to put in 3 or 4 bets on third street in razz, your draws brick to often so I try not to put in a lot of money until the hand develops further. With the action you've seen in this hand, as well as the door cards of your opponents I would probably just fold on 3rd street.

You know you have the best draw on 4th street so you bet, nothing wrong there, however if one of your opponents had raised I would just call, again not wanting to put in a ton of money until we see at least 5 cards.

On 5th street your opponent with A,Q,4 showing is repping he has 3,2 or 5,2 underneath, while your opponent 9,6,3 is repping he has a made 9,6 low and draw to 6 low. Your made Jack and draw to the 7 are way behind these guys boards,like others have stated against sane players your way behind at this point, without reads I would fold.

On 6th street you make your 7, good and bad news, your opponent now showing 9,6,5,3 has played like they have A,2 underneath and continues to bet, given this I would have just called there and call again on 7th.
 

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