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CannonLee and the rest of the nerds

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CannonLee and the rest of the nerds - Wed Jul 27, 2011, 01:48 AM
(#1)
Widzywidzy^^'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 151
Got seated next to this guy earlier, he literally plays ZERO hands and drags the clock out EVERY hand. I think he actually folds everything except aces (and probably including aces in some spots). Using this tactic he barely makes the bubble every tournament and adds a few points to his score, although I think if he gets a dodgy big blind start or unlucky table move etc. then he gets put out shortly before sometimes. If he doubles up after the bubble with his remaining 200 chips or whatever he will continue to drag out the clock till hes forced all in with the blinds again and if he hits again he will rinse and repeat for guaranteed points.

Why the **** is this tactic even usable? And I dont know whats more pathetic, having that much points halfway through the month and not shot-taking 1st or actually using the tactic in the first place.
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 02:21 AM
(#2)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE DONE OH WISE ONE ????


 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 03:58 AM
(#3)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
He's played 123 times to be 43rd in the league at this point and you've played 31 to be 444th,so it's rather obvious that you each have different expectations and goals here and thus different approaches.

I used to bitch and moan about how other players approached the league myself and then I got that moment of epiphany...

What the eff good does it do me to sweat how anyone else goes about their business? My only consideration needs to be what I want to achieve for myself and all other considerations aren't even secondary---they simply are IRRELEVANT.

If someone is playing within the rules then they have the right to play any damn way they see fit. Period.
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 06:27 AM
(#4)
IonelG56's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 52
BronzeStar
Ok, so if he is having results what is the problem?
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 04:06 PM
(#5)
Widzywidzy^^'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by IonelG56 View Post
Ok, so if he is having results what is the problem?
Err the problem is obviously that we are meant to be competing based on our POKER skills. This is a poker league in which the best players should be rewarded, not the ones who are pathetic enough to think up ways to drag out tournaments to cheat the system. Obviously all of you nerds will defend this person because you are doing the exact same thing, but what's the point in having a poker league when the winning players win not because of their poker performance (a 5 year old could drag out the clock every hand and fold to the bubble without playing anything including aces) but because they are dragging out every hand and literally not doing ANYTHING poker related in a poker tournament. Understand?

Moxie Pip I can guarantee you right now that I have played over 20 times the amount of hands he has played even though he has played 4 times the amount of tournaments I have. Usually that would sound like a donk statement but not in this case. How can you brush something to the side, calling it 'irrelevant'? (I think I know why, you're also one of these nerd players right). Something is NOT irrelevant when it is effecting the enjoyment of the game and the competitive play of the game that you are playing for a month of your life. If you are too shallow to see why then oh dear.

Hemetdennis, as far as I know PSO cant really do much based on the structure of the tournaments (and obviously cant do anything based on the structure of timebanks and how much time players have to act on Pokerstars' client) but if they had the ability to change the bubble structure, making the points bubble lower, (like when capped at 10k the bubble is 1440 or so, it would be changed to 800? approximately). This would not completely solve the problem but would atleast force these nerds to try and double up atleast once before pulling this stunt.
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 04:11 PM
(#6)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
lol Moxie a nerd ... aas Mpx would say.. "its on like donkey kong"
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 04:15 PM
(#7)
Da Sens Fan's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,118
NERD???? Nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd???????

That makes me want to NERD RAGE !!!!




Seriously though, crying about people playing tight and clocking is so dumb.
If you cannot beat people playing pure nit you got more problems to concern yourself with.

Last edited by Da Sens Fan; Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:18 PM..
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 04:32 PM
(#8)
Deleted user
I think your issue will be sorted out to some extent next month.
Most of the 1500 in the premier will be using a clock game and will have to adapt when they see the players are not dropping out like the open league.
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 04:33 PM
(#9)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted user View Post
I think your issue will be sorted out to some extent next month.
Most of the 1500 in the premier will be using a clock game and will have to adapt when they see the players are not dropping out like the open league.

+1000



 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 04:34 PM
(#10)
Da Sens Fan's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,118
Most of the top players hate clocking / folding / nit style, but they adapt to what is profitable.
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 04:42 PM
(#11)
FarrahnsMom's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widzywidzy^^ View Post
Err the problem is obviously that we are meant to be competing based on our POKER skills. This is a poker league in which the best players should be rewarded, not the ones who are pathetic enough to think up ways to drag out tournaments to cheat the system. Obviously all of you nerds will defend this person because you are doing the exact same thing, but what's the point in having a poker league when the winning players win not because of their poker performance (a 5 year old could drag out the clock every hand and fold to the bubble without playing anything including aces) but because they are dragging out every hand and literally not doing ANYTHING poker related in a poker tournament. Understand?

Moxie Pip I can guarantee you right now that I have played over 20 times the amount of hands he has played even though he has played 4 times the amount of tournaments I have. Usually that would sound like a donk statement but not in this case. How can you brush something to the side, calling it 'irrelevant'? (I think I know why, you're also one of these nerd players right). Something is NOT irrelevant when it is effecting the enjoyment of the game and the competitive play of the game that you are playing for a month of your life. If you are too shallow to see why then oh dear.

Hemetdennis, as far as I know PSO cant really do much based on the structure of the tournaments (and obviously cant do anything based on the structure of timebanks and how much time players have to act on Pokerstars' client) but if they had the ability to change the bubble structure, making the points bubble lower, (like when capped at 10k the bubble is 1440 or so, it would be changed to 800? approximately). This would not completely solve the problem but would atleast force these nerds to try and double up atleast once before pulling this stunt.
you seem to be confused..this person u call a cheat is doing everything within the rules of pokerstars...if players want to time out they can...in the new league timing out is the only way to go ....if you cant learn to adapt thats your own problem gl F.M
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 07:24 PM
(#12)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widzywidzy^^ View Post
Err the problem is obviously that we are meant to be competing based on our POKER skills. This is a poker league in which the best players should be rewarded, not the ones who are pathetic enough to think up ways to drag out tournaments to cheat the system. Obviously all of you nerds will defend this person because you are doing the exact same thing, but what's the point in having a poker league when the winning players win not because of their poker performance (a 5 year old could drag out the clock every hand and fold to the bubble without playing anything including aces) but because they are dragging out every hand and literally not doing ANYTHING poker related in a poker tournament. Understand?

Moxie Pip I can guarantee you right now that I have played over 20 times the amount of hands he has played even though he has played 4 times the amount of tournaments I have. Usually that would sound like a donk statement but not in this case. How can you brush something to the side, calling it 'irrelevant'? (I think I know why, you're also one of these nerd players right). Something is NOT irrelevant when it is effecting the enjoyment of the game and the competitive play of the game that you are playing for a month of your life. If you are too shallow to see why then oh dear.

Hemetdennis, as far as I know PSO cant really do much based on the structure of the tournaments (and obviously cant do anything based on the structure of timebanks and how much time players have to act on Pokerstars' client) but if they had the ability to change the bubble structure, making the points bubble lower, (like when capped at 10k the bubble is 1440 or so, it would be changed to 800? approximately). This would not completely solve the problem but would atleast force these nerds to try and double up atleast once before pulling this stunt.

A lot to respond to here where to start?

1.Well one poker skill that Cannon Lee and the rest of the "nerds" have grasped and you,apparently, have not is ADAPTABILITY. Changing one's game to fit the parameters of the most profitable line and run with it to it's fullest advantage. It took me all of 3 days back in August last year to deduce that the optimal line to take in a PSO was to play it like a satellite. That revelation netted me a second place finish and $1000. If you think myself,CoTe,Dman,Hitman,Sharkatak or anyone else who's hip to what it takes to maximize their earning potential WITHIN THE CONSTRAINTS of this league is going to apologize for it....well I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. And as to what it says about you that you're too stubborn and/or dense to adopt a strategy that even,as you say,a five year old could play if it gives you the best chance of making the most money...well I'll leave that for you to figure out on your own.

2. You've played 1/4 as many games as Cannon Lee and think you've "played" 20 times more hands of poker in your estimation. Great,how wonderful for you. How's that working out for you? And how's it working out for him and all the other "nerds"?

BTW in my opinion ANY hand that you are dealt into in a poker game that you are not sitting out IS playing. Having the patience and discipline to clock and fold hand after hand IS a skill. And if you think that developing such patience and discipline can't/won't serve you well outside of PSO then I suggest you ask some of the peeps here who have credited the League with enhancing their patience and discipline whether or not it helped them beyond the PSO format. Hell there are reams of posts on it here in the Forum if you care to look.

That's NOT to say that doing the exact style of play that one has to do in PSO will translate well at all in real money games,that's obvious. But that doesn't mean that there aren't certain aspects of it that won't translate. Like I said a lot of top players here can point to their playing in PSO and how it dovetails with their improvement in cash MTT/SNG results. I'm one of them.

3.As to what is and isn't irrelevant, well yeah, since how you or any other player goes about their business (so long as it's within the constraints of the rules) is irrelevant to me,how you or any other player feels about how I play is equally irrelevant to me. My ONLY consideration is how to best exploit it to my advantage. Period. You think that you're the first to slag the League off for it's non-poker (in you opinion) premise? LOL,far from it. Many of those in the past felt that many of the top players were incapable of playing poker as well. I believe Darkman61 summed it up best when he basically told one that if he felt the top players were Welcome Mat's to be trod on to try that theory out and see how far it goes.

As to any enjoyment that you do or don't get from playing in the League that's up to you and you alone. No one here is responsible for YOUR enjoyment,or lack thereof,of the game. Not from the highest ranked player to the worst ATC card shoving monkey ever to shrug out of their straight-jacket and load up a game. If YOU'RE to shallow to see that then oh dear.

4. As to any restructuring of the point system or anything else...well there's always going to be something for someone to complain about so nothing PSO does will ever alleviate that. And were they to do so I guarantee you that there isn't a system that they could come up with that the better players wouldn't be able to adapt to.

I haven't been able to play on Stars since 4/15 because of the donks in my government but just from looking in on a few games I know for a fact that I would be nuking this current format and structure and be firmly ensconced in the top 50-100 players. Any type of "run-good" streak and I would be trying to take it down.

And fold/stalling every tedious step of the way.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 07:27 PM..
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 07:51 PM
(#13)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Even before I read your post I am going to say I love Moxie Pip
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 08:03 PM
(#14)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Well anyone who rocks a spotted orange shirt in their avatar is bound to have impeccable taste.

Who's that skinny bloke next to you though?
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 08:11 PM
(#15)
brkn80's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
A lot to respond to here where to start?

1.Well one poker skill that Cannon Lee and the rest of the "nerds" have grasped and you,apparently, have not is ADAPTABILITY. Changing one's game to fit the parameters of the most profitable line and run with it to it's fullest advantage. It took me all of 3 days back in August last year to deduce that the optimal line to take in a PSO was to play it like a satellite. That revelation netted me a second place finish and $1000. If you think myself,CoTe,Dman,Hitman,Sharkatak or anyone else who's hip to what it takes to maximize their earning potential WITHIN THE CONSTRAINTS of this league is going to apologize for it....well I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. And as to what it says about you that you're too stubborn and/or dense to adopt a strategy that even,as you say,a five year old could play if it gives you the best chance of making the most money...well I'll leave that for you to figure out on your own.

2. You've played 1/4 as many games as Cannon Lee and think you've "played" 20 times more hands of poker in your estimation. Great,how wonderful for you. How's that working out for you? And how's it working out for him and all the other "nerds"?

BTW in my opinion ANY hand that you are dealt into in a poker game that you are not sitting out IS playing. Having the patience and discipline to clock and fold hand after hand IS a skill. And if you think that developing such patience and discipline can't/won't serve you well outside of PSO then I suggest you ask some of the peeps here who have credited the League with enhancing their patience and discipline whether or not it helped them beyond the PSO format. Hell there are reams of posts on it here in the Forum if you care to look.

That's NOT to say that doing the exact style of play that one has to do in PSO will translate well at all in real money games,that's obvious. But that doesn't mean that there aren't certain aspects of it that won't translate. Like I said a lot of top players here can point to their playing in PSO and how it dovetails with their improvement in cash MTT/SNG results. I'm one of them.

3.As to what is and isn't irrelevant, well yeah, since how you or any other player goes about their business (so long as it's within the constraints of the rules) is irrelevant to me,how you or any other player feels about how I play is equally irrelevant to me. My ONLY consideration is how to best exploit it to my advantage. Period. You think that you're the first to slag the League off for it's non-poker (in you opinion) premise? LOL,far from it. Many of those in the past felt that many of the top players were incapable of playing poker as well. I believe Darkman61 summed it up best when he basically told one that if he felt the top players were Welcome Mat's to be trod on to try that theory out and see how far it goes.

As to any enjoyment that you do or don't get from playing in the League that's up to you and you alone. No one here is responsible for YOUR enjoyment,or lack thereof,of the game. Not from the highest ranked player to the worst ATC card shoving monkey ever to shrug out of their straight-jacket and load up a game. If YOU'RE to shallow to see that then oh dear.

4. As to any restructuring of the point system or anything else...well there's always going to be something for someone to complain about so nothing PSO does will ever alleviate that. And were they to do so I guarantee you that there isn't a system that they could come up with that the better players wouldn't be able to adapt to.

I haven't been able to play on Stars since 4/15 because of the donks in my government but just from looking in on a few games I know for a fact that I would be nuking this current format and structure and be firmly ensconced in the top 50-100 players. Any type of "run-good" streak and I would be trying to take it down.

And fold/stalling every tedious step of the way.
Talk about a being SLAPPED into the REALITIES of the PSO.


WELL EFFING SAID AZZHAT
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 08:19 PM
(#16)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
Well anyone who rocks a spotted orange shirt in their avatar is bound to have impeccable taste.

Who's that skinny bloke next to you though?
It's Brkn LOL
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 09:49 PM
(#17)
Widzywidzy^^'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 151
ROFL @ suckups ITT.

Look at the state of you and the way you talk about clock running as if your actually proud that you learned that it is viable. Everyone knows it is viable and does it but its not the point im trying to make. Im saying that the tournament would be better without it and you should be agreeing with me considering your a self proclaimed pro. For a super pro player like yourself you should want the other non-poker advantages of the tournament out of the way so that you could win every tournament with your sick poker skills no?

So tell me this, wouldnt you PREFER if it wasnt there? Obviously if its there you will use it, I never said once that I didnt or wouldnt use it but generally looking at the leaderboards im forced to do this to stand a chance seeing as im not able to play 150 tournaments a month (lol social life).

I find it hilarious that you sit there flaming me about how I dont have adaptability etc. as if I dont know that the most logical thing to do is do this strategy, obviously I do know this. At the end of the day I play this for competitiveness and fun to see how I could do, hoping that everyone was here for the same reason but obviously everyone is here for the cheeseburgers.

Just think its funny that people are so desperate for like $50 that they will spend a whole month clock dragging, why not just get a job and make that $50 in a day? I highly doubt that the players sitting behind their computers doing this are saying to themselves 'Gosh im so proud of what I have accomplished today! I dragged out 300 clocks and made some points to get my extra value meal' Sigh @ nerds.

Fair enough if their doing it to come 1st and win 5k but 99%+ of them arent.
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 09:56 PM
(#18)
Widzywidzy^^'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 151
Btw just out of curiousity for everyone doing this, what hands do you actually play and when? Im assuming KK+ till bubble? Lol @ the thought of folding QQ first hand on button.
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 10:48 PM
(#19)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
First hand that's only playable from the BB if nobody has raised. You really have no idea
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 11:04 PM
(#20)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Wow muffin do you Tilt this easily on the tables as well?

First as to your assertion that I consider myself a "super pro" all I can say is lol. Anyone who knows me in this League knows that I consider myself a fair-to-middling player who does have enough of a grasp on the parameters of PSO to be a top player within the constraints of the League itself. Outside of the league my results are solid enough but it's a smallish sample compared to what I intend it to be when/if I get back on here. And yes it's mini-micro levels. So I've never held myself up as a "pro" or anything like it.

You however are the one who took it upon yourself to open a thread for the express purpose of insulting and denigrating the play of a player who's tactics you didn't approve of,nevermind that they were perfectly legal. Then you proceeded to slam a fair portion of the rest of the competitive players in the League and continue to do so. And you call me a "super pro".

LMFAO, project much there skippy?

As for how many games one is willing to play here or not well for myself I believe the most I ever played was 92 I think so that's 3 a day. That's not much time spent here on Stars and looking at your frequency of play on one of the tracking sites I would say that it's most likely LESS hours a day than what you are accustomed to putting in on here in a day. So how's YOUR social life?

That's always such a weak deflection of an argument that it really makes me sick every time I hear it. Who the eff are YOU to judge how many hours a person should or shouldn't spend on here? If someone wants to play 150 of these a month I have one simple response to that...

I could not possibly care less.

That's their business. As to grinding that hard for $50,$30,$15 or less most of the players here are just starting out and that money can be a starting point for them. Some don't want to deposit,or can't for that matter. I never did myself and I played at levels where the $30-$50 a month I could make easy on here by playing roughly 50 games was enough to cover the nut for ALL my buy-ins for the month and then some. So basically because of PSO any money I won in cash plays was pure profit. That alone was worth the time and effort put forth in PSO for me and since I was usually playing with a couple other tables up elsewhere,why not?

Hell even for someone playing $5 dollar buy-ins for their MTT/SNG plays $50 a month can flatten out a little variance.

Would I have personally liked to have seen a scoring system that was more rewarding of actual poker play instead of being exploitable by clock-and-folding? Hell yes,I think you'll find that 99% of the top players here would like to see that. But that's not the structure that we were GIVEN,given being the key word here. It's free and it's only part of the school and in my opinion it's not the most important or best part. So to me the choice then is to play or not to play.

You say that you aren't particularly interested in playing the PSO way and that you're more about competition and having fun. Well that's perfectly fine,play however you feel. That's your right and I would defend your right to play anyway that you want to play as long as you aren't breaking any rules,even the ATC shove monkeys and their insanity is perfectly fine by me.

YOU are the one who chose to go after another player by name over the way that they played. You don't want to be "flamed" (LMAO at the guy smelling of gas with the lit match in his hand saying HE'S getting flamed BTW. Again,project much?),then maybe don't be dumping on people here yourself. If you want to do that then put your big-boy pants on first and deal with what comes back at you.

Finally if you feel that this League is such a joke and that the vast majority of the players in it are beneath your contempt WTF are you doing here to begin with?

Slumming?

For myself I'll be doing cartwheels to get at my 'puter the day I find out that I can load up Stars and the PSO again and as someone who was always an advocate of a second,merit-based League would be doing my dead level best to play in the Premier League.

Hope it's sooner than later.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:06 PM..
 

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