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Where did(n't) I go wrong?

 
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Where did(n't) I go wrong? - Wed Jul 27, 2011, 03:09 PM
(#1)
NL_Niels's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 16
I was playing a regional freeroll. Was playing quite strong when suddenly I got moved to a table where I was the 2nd biggest stack. Four hands later I was out. Obviously I made mistakes. It'd be great to get some feedback so I can improve my play.



First I thought I had a decent hand to play against one of the callers and was confident I could bully at least two players out of the hand, which I did (the blinds). Both early callers called me though. Then, when the small bet was made on the flop, I figured a K or Q would be my possible outs and that the pot odds made me have to call, especially with the other guy folding. Then I figured the 1000 chip bet on the turn was because he hit a straight; I put him on a A3s at this point. I tried to bluff/scare him out of the pot with the possible flush on the table and his tournament life at stake. Unsuccesfully, as he had the flush himself. I would have expected him to push all in with that. I guess I didn't play this hand too well. I'm wondering where I made the biggest mistake. Where should I have pulled out?

Next I got this hand:



Basically here I'd like to know if you think I shouldn't have raised to begin with, or shouldn't have folded the all in push.

At this point I tilted I guess and got too eager to win chips back. I figured I needed to win a few pots to get back into a position to seriously contend. This was the hand that then ended my tournament:



Basically, as I mentioned before, I was hoping to get my stack back to considerable size and was willing to take some risk for it. The raiser, being the big stack, could be pushing with anything up to ATo or suited connectors or something I tought. I assumed he might call me but thought I'd still have a decent chance to double up, instantly making me the big stack again. Was this a weak play (I guess it was). How should I have played this hand?

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

Last edited by NL_Niels; Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:11 PM..
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 04:41 PM
(#2)
PaidInFull6's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 342
For me your playing way to loose and aggressive. All 3 of these hands are speculative so I'm not fond of raising 4-6x preflop with any of them. Your obviously up against weak calling stations, so just be patient and wait for a monster hand, they will pay you off when you get it.

In the hand you had KQ off suit I would have just limped behind and taken a flop in position. Raising 6x against these free roll calling stations is not a great play, your bloating a pot with a marginal hand that's unlikely to make better than top pair on the flop. If I had a pair of tens or better, or AQ suited or better I would raise to isolate the calling station's, but I don't think KQ is strong enough to make this play.

On the flop, this is a good example of why raising this hand is not a good idea, the calling station called pre and now donk bets barely more than , but you flopped absolute air and are in a quandary as to what your best play is. The only reason this is not an easy fold is because your raised so much preflop, if you just called pre this would be an easy decision.

Think you need to tighten up a lot, for me the big stack means I can take more flops with these kinds of hands, but I want cheap flops and only want to put in more money when my hand improves or is a clear favorite.
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 05:10 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,824
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
first hand... way too loose and aggressive. With 2 limpers in front of you, if you want to limp and see a flop, that's one thing. Making a raise like that without a made hand will only get you into trouble. Even seeing the flop, when you totally whiff on it, you gotta get out of the hand.

second hand.... raising to 5BB with small suited connectors is another that's way too loose. Since the one opp limped again, if you want to limp and see a cheap flop, that's one thing... to raise that much again without a made hand will most likely get you into trouble. Also, by raising to 5BB, then folding to a push, is a BIG leak. If you raise that much, you should also want to call a re-raise... which 67 suited is NOT a good enough hand to do so with.

third hand... limping to open with 33 isn't a horrible play, but when the opp re-raises you, you need to muck them and find a hand to get your chips into where you are the favorite. At best you are going to be in a race if you push back... and most-likely, like you were, totally dominated.

From these, you're playing and raising with way, way too many marginal hands that you need to be mucking preflop. The first or third, trying to limp and see a flop is okay... but any raise or calling a preflop raise with is not good... they need to be mucked. The second hand is another that really should be mucked preflop.
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 09:43 PM
(#4)
Oku_Ha_FooLs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 188
Well heres my opinion on the above hands :

Hand 1.

I Do like the raise pre with KQ, however i do think your bet sizing could use a little adjustment, maybe something like 850-1100.....not a fan of overbetting the pot preflop unless your holdings are very strong and want to get value from bad station players........

Also once the flop hits and villain donks you should just fold imo.....you dont rep many hands at all by flatting the teeniest bet by villain.......by the looks of it villains perceived range of you is pairs,over cards , and or even A high big...... when you do float and he donk bets the made flush i dont think u can ever bluff off whatever it is hes betting for value even if he takes the line with 2 pairs, str8s sets w/e it is ever hes not folding pretty much commiting himself to the pot (hes obviously a bad player) and i think ur bluff in that spot is bad vs his value range.........

So pretty much when you bluff at that turn card, you can only ever get him to fold his pure air bluffs..........so now we should take into consideration his bluffing freqeuncy and bluff freqeuncy OOP i would assume its nearly nill since it is a fairly advanced thing to do succesfully lol...... so just from that analysis i would conclude that you should never bluff in that spot.

Now back to the turn action........your pretty much trying to rep the nuts by shoving here which is a pretty wierd line given no raise on the flop..... imo when he bets 1,000 hes tgrying to get value from the bottom of ur range : pocket pairs, over cards with a high club, 2 pairs ect....lol i think at this level tho it's in his subconsious mind lol........ just fold next time, its okaay to fold man...................

Hand 2.:

Simple solution, FOLD lol next time just dont bother playing trash like that, unless your playing a very deep tourny with long levels ..........and if so i think it would only be acceptable if it was folded round to you and u made a stadard 2.5x open, or of coarse there already was 2-3 limpers giving you good odds to take a flop........

yes i am going to needle your bet sizing, definantly needs adjusting thats much too big of a raise there pre imo, if you were going to raise just raise something like 3x since theres a limper there..........obviously fold to any extra action..........not much else to say

Hand 3.

This has to be like one of the top 3 common mistakes players make playing mtts, the dreaded small pairs lol............set mining oop with 20-25 blinds is silly considering you will miss the flop 7 out of 8 times.........i wouldn't set mine unless i was in position and there had been limpers ahead or if it had been folded round, then i would make my standad min raise open or 2.5x taking control of the pot and c bet take it down lots of the time.........

My advise is to fold there early position with pairs from 2s all the way to 7s, 8s even sometimes............but obviously dynamics will change from time to time where you may be able to become more aggresive, opening more hands late stages in a MTT ............where opening small pairs can be more +ev to play from early position....not saying more +ev to play from early than late position but uno what i mean..... then again its all dependent on the dynamics of the table and really up 2 ur own assesment of the table and the players.........


well hope my advice helps u freind, goodlcuk

Oku_ha_fools over and Under :P

Last edited by Oku_Ha_FooLs; Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 11:13 PM..
 
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Wed Jul 27, 2011, 10:22 PM
(#5)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Well, I'm still learning too, but stuff I've noticed when I was the big stack is stuff like that:

1) The 'squeeze play' seems to work best when you have like a 4x stack edge on the people you're trying to put pressure on. Stacks with half the chips can still afford to call, and stacks with super short stacks will just shove back if they have a hand.

2) Position can be good, but not always if there's already 2 or three limpers in the pot.

3) Small bets can oftentimes mean strength, not weakness.

4) In the long-run, there's been so many times I wish I had waited to develop player reads first - will they still limp-call with a 5xbb raise from the button, and with what sorts of hands? Who will limp-fold to a min-raise, and who will fold in the BB, and how often will that happen?

5) So by sticking to the above, sometimes you can steal blinds and antes with just a min-raise or 2.5xBB, and you don't need to put so many at risk. And then that only needs to work 2 out of every 3 times to be profitable, because sometimes people will have hands they want to play.

But here, after hand 1, that extra leverage you had by being the big stack, you weren't the big stack any more. Plus, everybody just saw you raise 5xBB with KQo and shove/bluff with air. So your table image has been set a certain way - sometimes it can be more profitable to wait for a monster and then play it that same way you played KQo on the turn, and then people won't know if it's a real hand or air? Like just stick to basic solid poker to rebuild your stack?

I don't know ... my game's still a massive work in progress. I'm just here for the tips myself

GL at the tables!

Last edited by TrustySam; Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 10:28 PM..
 
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Thu Jul 28, 2011, 12:00 PM
(#6)
NL_Niels's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 16
Thanks for all the constructive feedback. Will definitely be back to post more hands.
 
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Thu Jul 28, 2011, 01:13 PM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,824
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NL_Niels View Post
Thanks for all the constructive feedback. Will definitely be back to post more hands.
The more hands we can get posted, the more we can all learn from them!
 

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