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Should I play this type of hand differently?

 
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Should I play this type of hand differently? - Thu Jul 28, 2011, 12:02 PM
(#1)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
PokerStars Game #65075701446: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2011/07/26 2:25:05 CET [2011/07/25 20:25:05 ET]
Table 'Orthos IV' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: topthecat ($5.08 in chips)
Seat 2: peaceei ($1.42 in chips)
Seat 3: zhenglong7 ($1 in chips)
Seat 4: henricon92 ($2.85 in chips)
Seat 5: stormynight8 ($4.76 in chips)
Seat 6: Vortexx1111 ($0.72 in chips)
Seat 7: LordRiverRat ($2 in chips)
Seat 8: BlackRain79 ($5 in chips)
Seat 9: johnpbg ($2.30 in chips)
peaceei: posts small blind $0.01
zhenglong7: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to topthecat [7h Ks]
henricon92: folds
stormynight8: calls $0.02
Vortexx1111: folds
LordRiverRat: calls $0.02
BlackRain79: folds
johnpbg: folds
johnpbg leaves the table
topthecat: raises $0.06 to $0.08
peaceei: calls $0.07
trenac11 joins the table at seat #9
zhenglong7: folds
stormynight8: calls $0.06
Vortexx1111 is disconnected
LordRiverRat: calls $0.06
*** FLOP *** [Kh 8h 2h]
Vortexx1111 is connected
peaceei: bets $0.08
stormynight8: folds
LordRiverRat: calls $0.08
topthecat: raises $0.20 to $0.28
peaceei: calls $0.20
LordRiverRat: folds
*** TURN *** [Kh 8h 2h] [4h]
peaceei: checks
topthecat: bets $1.18
peaceei: calls $1.06 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.12) returned to topthecat
*** RIVER *** [Kh 8h 2h 4h] [2c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
peaceei: shows [Kd Kc] (a full house, Kings full of Deuces)
topthecat: mucks hand
peaceei collected $2.95 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $3.10 | Rake $0.15
Board [Kh 8h 2h 4h 2c]
Seat 1: topthecat (button) mucked [7h Ks]
Seat 2: peaceei (small blind) showed [Kd Kc] and won ($2.95) with a full house, Kings full of Deuces
Seat 3: zhenglong7 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: henricon92 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: stormynight8 folded on the Flop
Seat 6: Vortexx1111 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: LordRiverRat folded on the Flop
Seat 8: BlackRain79 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: johnpbg folded before Flop (didn't bet)







Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

Ok a bit of background first. I had been at this min cash table for about 30 minutes and had more than doubled my buy in with some very aggressive play. I had good reads on all my opponents and the villain to my immediate left was a mix between LAG and loose passive. I had noted that he was aggressive with air but was much more passive when he had a hand.

My raise on the button was virtually instant on this table because there were so many calling stations who I was confident I could outplay post flop and I could always take the dead money if everyone folded. I was immediately alerted when the sb called because he usually folded or reraised when I tried to steal so I felt right away that he had a hand, probably a premium pair.

The flop came good for me with top pair and a flush draw. The SB bet 8 cents into a 34 cent pot, which confirmed my suspicion of a good hand but that he feared the flush possibilities. I assumed that he did not have a heart. There was one caller and I fired 29 cents into a 50 cent pot, was that a 3 bet?? I am not too sure of the terminology. The SB called and the limper folded. At this point I was pretty sure that he had a set of Ks.

The turn brings a fourth heart and my flush draw completes. SB checks, I am now convinced he has two Kings, he cannot make four of a kind, so he needs any 2, 4, or 8 to get a house which is nine outs. I put him all in for value expecting and hoping to get the call. He duly does as I wish and I cringe when the two hits the river. He was obviously never folding his set.

I am not unhappy at all with the way I played the hand but my main questions are to do with bet sizing and putting him all in on the turn. It would not change the outcome of the hand off course but would checking be better than betting on the turn considering the number of outs that he has and I am 100% certain he has a set of Ks.

It is a situation that seems to come up with some regularity so I would be grateful to find out what is the best way to play it.

Thanks in advance

TC

Last edited by topthecat; Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 12:14 PM..
 
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Thu Jul 28, 2011, 01:28 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,786
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I agree with you on the calling station, preflop raise. If you can outplay them more often than not, then you'll come out ahead more, by raising.

The SB bet of about 1/4 pot should be one of two things, either a blocking bet on a draw or a monster (if they're playing passively, the chances of a monster go up considerably). The SB calling your raise, really doesn't change it much, as they'll have a big flush draw, AK or set... most likely.

When the 4th heart hits on the turn, if it were me, I'm checking behind.. as pot control. You were correct in putting them on KK, I'd have put him on AK with the A of hearts. Especially if you put the opp on a set of kings, I'd check and make sure the river didn't pair the board... then get it all in on the river if the board doesn't pair. If they'd call the push on the turn, then they'll also most likely call it on the river.

The reason I'd have put them on AK with A of hearts, is that I'd have expected a re-raise preflop from KK.

Great read TC, on them having KK!
 
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Thu Jul 28, 2011, 02:24 PM
(#3)
Oku_Ha_FooLs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 188
I will give you some useful advice for next time:

When playing stations, you generally want to be playing fairly tight solid game..........K7 belongs in the fold category your not ahead of any of his range there at best your beating the very bottom of his range lol random suit connectors.............obviously reason for playing tight is they will be calling light alot and you always want to have the edge by tightening up that pre flop hand selection only adding to your edge of already having position on him.......

I think what is going on here in the first place is a simple case of high stakes poker/the big game itis lol.............watching these videos all the time and "analysing" them i find personally without offending anyone THE DUMEST THING a learning poker player could do, the players at that level have super duper thinking capabilities and being able to play those games involes a ton of changing gears and alot of i know that u know that i know type of 4th level thinking (which dosn't even occur in games all the way up to 10/20$ IMO)........trying to analyse the way genious's play from this level imo is just like trying to dunk/ shoot 3 pointers when your shooting % is like 15% hahah yeah its overall bad for your game and you will notice you tend to play alot more suit connectors then before lol.................i overall beleive by watching these videos and trying to understand what is going on with the meta game involved, you will miss a ton of basic concepts which should be understood in order to even try to understand what is going on..............its all very complicated

but IMO id say that villain who won the hand played it the worstttttttttttttt flatting kk multi way OOP wow soo bad.......

just from now don't play trash like K7 with stations in the hand you could get yourself in big truble :/

Last edited by Oku_Ha_FooLs; Thu Jul 28, 2011 at 02:26 PM..
 
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Fri Jul 29, 2011, 07:55 AM
(#4)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Thanks for the advice guys, I really appreciate it.

I do watch the Big Game by the way Oku but I certainly agree I have a lot more to learn before trying stuff like that. I will maybe have a couple more that I will post up both at these limits and 25NL. I took a tip from someone else on the forum to warm up at the lower limits and it seems to be paying dividends

TC
 
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Fri Jul 29, 2011, 05:50 PM
(#5)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Pre Flop:
When you read your table as CS, raising this lite puts you in a pretty difficult spot a lot of the time.

Many of the CS players of the world are really more on the TP side (as opposed to LP), and have learned that you can "trap" aggro players by letting them bet themselves into oblvion.

As such, a lot of your "near value" situations become less profitable; By "near value" I mean exactly hands like top pair/weak kickers that you are likely to see from K7o.

Additionally, you have a guy who will waffle between LP and LAG, meaning he might well RAISE a button raise by you. Do you really "need" to put yourself into a situation where you are either calling a 3Bet with a hand of negligible flop value, or 4Betting on a "read" with a hand that is behind stuff like A5/6/7 (which are all possible based on your read)?

Versus this dynamic, and with your reads, I think I am sticking with CALLS into the pots on the button with baby pp or just about ANY suited 1 gappers, and more connectors down to about 78/89 (depending upon post flop bet sizing patterns). I am RAISING my suited AJ+ (mainly to isolate as much as possible and make those hands play better), and also pp with a reasonable chance to flop an over pair but a bit LOOSER than versus "normal" players (because they will tend to call with less than 2nd pair to the board if I only see 1 over card)...say down to 99 vs my "normal" JJ multi-way raise entries. My off suit Aces are raises only on AQ+ because they do call too much, but since they call (likely) with really trash aces, down to around A8/A9 are going to be limps for me.

In short, I am trying to leverage as much VALUE from my hands as possible, simply because they call too much, and I do NOT want to "trigger" raises by the waffling SB player that I cannot play against on a favorable range. I do commend you for trying to widen your raise range versus the table dynamic; more frequent pot entires are the way to exploit weaker opponents. I jsut think that in this case you went a bit TOO WIDE in your hand selection pre-flop.

Flop:

Based on your reads, a totally "yuck" raise in my opinion...

First, your SB read is strength when he bets small.
You hold top pair/7 kick, with a weak flush chance.
Even if by "strong" if SB villain range is skewed, it is probably going to consist in large part of K's greater than 7, and/or hearts bigger than 7.
It is your read we are going on here, so about the ONLY thing your raise is doing in terms of the SB is causing him to "maybe" muck better heart draws when your K Is "good", or is getting you called by K's that are BETTER than yours...and a lot of those Ks will have better heart kickers too...

Second, when the remaining "station" calls the bet made by SB, you gotta think he has AT LEAST a heart.
5h are worse than your 7, 5h are better than your 7.
Roughly 50/50 he has one or the other, since he called the small SB bet, and you are only folding out the ones that are "worse", and MAYBE the 9h.
You may also get worse pairs to fold...ones who do not yet "believe" there is a flush in anyone's hand, but those probably do NOT have a heart (if folded)...you are ahead of all those.

If he is such a CS, you are going to have a hard time folding out better hands than yours from his range,
and your raise makes you vulnerable to calls from BETTER draws.

The sum total of BOTH these villains is:
If both call your raise, one of 'em probably has you crushed on pure value, and the other one has your crushed on draw value.
If one of the villains folds, you were probably well ahead of that villain anyway.

Not a good spot to be raising...

Turn:

Ok, bravo to you in getting some "definition" at least for your draw by raising to get CS to fold.
The value is that it makes your flush draw somewhat "clearer", but there is still a decent chance you are facing something like AhKx or KxQh held by SB...not "just" a set of kings.
You really want to be putting chips into the pot for a STRONG REASON, not just because it is "possible" that it works.

Moving on...

Since the SB seemed to be "tricky" insofar as he will bet small when strong and bet big/aggro when weak, that check by him could easily be an AK/KQ with a better heart.
It could be a set. Per your read, it probably is not 2 pair, and a straight isn't possible here.
So your flop raise has essentially "polarized" the SB's turn check into a hand that "crushes your nuts", or one that is not really "smart" to put many more chips in IF HE HAS A SIMILAR SIZE STACK TO YOU.

I put that into bold letters because of the fact SB had much fewer chps than you means that the pot size when you put him in on the turn is large enough that he really should consider "standing" on "just" a set...for his re-draw outs. Versus the same size stack as you, your comments in the description ("I knew he had a set, and would call") are pretty off base...about the ONLY time someone would consider folding a set is facing a pretty "expensive" bet with 1 card to come for a boat draw. In this spot though, the SB started short, and the "worth" of picking up this pot, vs conserving the small stack he has left when you bet him in, probably begs him to put 'em in without necessarily having a flush, but having just "boat outs". did you notice that fact, and was that the reaosn you put in (he will call with a set)? If so, good on you...

If you did consider stack sizes, then your turn bet is simply a 'gamble it up" bet, one that is either right" or is "wrong"...it can be either/or.
It was your play BEFORE the turn in this hand which led you to that spot though, basically "flipping" inside your head as to whether the SB held a big heart or not.
I do not "mind" the turn bet at all really, because if villain IS on a hand without a heart, one that he will fold, but one that does have outs against you (2 pair or a set), there is no sense in giving the "free card" here...the pot is pretty big. The thing is, this turn bet "requires" you to be facing a villain who is short enough to call on les than the flush, with just outs to a boat, to derive you value. If you "saw" that value there, then bravo...if not then you;d have been better served checking the turn in hopes of "inducing" a small-ish river bluff.



Starting to see how playing big pots with marginal hands against these reads on weak players COULD get you into trouble?
 
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Sat Jul 30, 2011, 09:41 AM
(#6)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Thanks JD.

I was definitely looking forward to your detailed analysis and you did not disappoint. My looseness at 2, 5, and 10 NL is actually becoming a concern, not because I sometimes lose big pots but because I am making the incorrect play and putting myself in really tight spots. I know that I should be tightening up my opening range and mucking the dirt

One of the problems that I encounter is trying to accurately range opponents. I can gauge it roughly but I am sure there must be some more accurate and learned way of doing it.

Just one final question JD, say you know your opponent is on a draw after the flop and you have top two pair. What is the best approach? I know many would advocate pot control to offset a big loss but when the opponent does not hit and shuts down you also minimise potential gains. I have a tendency to bet big into these type of hands because my thinking is that you are going to have to pay to draw on me. Is this too loose and aggressive and a losing play?

Many thanks for all your help and insight, JD. I have learnt so much from all your posts and from the posts of all the guys in hand analysis and I am really grateful for that. Hopefully, my game and knowledge will improve enough that I can repay the favour back to others in the future.

Cheers,

TC
 
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Sat Jul 30, 2011, 07:06 PM
(#7)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topthecat View Post

Just one final question JD, say you know your opponent is on a draw after the flop and you have top two pair. What is the best approach? I know many would advocate pot control to offset a big loss but when the opponent does not hit and shuts down you also minimise potential gains. I have a tendency to bet big into these type of hands because my thinking is that you are going to have to pay to draw on me. Is this too loose and aggressive and a losing play?

TC
(NOTE: EVERYTHING I am putting up here is for "regular" game play; ring games, MTT or SNG. This is not necessarily applicable to PSO play, which places a "premium" upon risk avoidance.)

Answer:
Bet to DENY ODDS , but INVITE a call. (most of the time at least).

"Pot Control" lines are NOT used to "protect you" from chip loss if a Villain draws out on you.

"Pot Control" lines are for when you feel you MIGHT be ahead, but you might NOT be ahead too.

"Pot control" lines can also be useful if you suspect you are ahead, but that you are not "strongly ahead". By this I mean if there are a wide range of "threat cards" which could come to make your hand second best. This is often the case with 1 pair hands like medimum top pairs (8/9/T), or "minor" over pairs (likes 88/99/TT).

I'll give you a "test " (if you want to take it).
I'll post some situations, you tell me whether you would adopt a pot control line, or a line designed to get the most value in as possible...ok?

Consider all players to be on "deep stacks".

#1
You raised standard pre, Villain called behind you.
Your Hand: AA
1 CS Villain with position on you.
Board = Ah 2s 9d

#2
All pre-flop limped.
Your hand: Ts9d
3 Villains ahead, all CS players who check to you, you on the BTN.
Board = Qs Js 8c

#3
You get a "free flop" From BB
5 villains limp (SB folded).
Your hand: 63o (no h, obviously)
Board = 3h 6h 7h

Answer those and we can discuss your answers, ok?

In short, Pot control lines with top 2 pair hands are usually not very good at all because they will tend to be the "best" hand quite often, and the likeliest draws against them will not have greater than about a 17/18% chance to hit ON THE TURN. Yes, you CAN be "behind" a set, since top 2 is never the nut hand on the flop, but without an EXTREME READ basing a decsion to "pot control" on that "fear" is pretty weak and value owning to you.

So in light of that, try putting up your answers, and discuss why you;d answer that way, ok?
 
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Sun Jul 31, 2011, 01:49 AM
(#8)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Hi JD,

I will give my answer off the cuff so that if i make mistakes, I actually learn something.

#1 Uncoordinated board. If it is a standard CS then I am throwing out a bet for value because he will more than likely believe I do not have As. If he calls then he may have a set, 34,45, or two pair or nothing. In any case I am way ahead and would rebet the turn. If the board pairs, I have the best house and I am still firing. I would only slow down in the eventuality of trips on the board, but even then four of a kind is unlikely.

#2 This is a bit trickier. I probably have the best hand at this point but not the nuts and could be easily outdrawn especially by the flush. My str feels pretty strong as I have the inside cards. I would probably bet around third of the pot. My further actions would be determined by the number of callers, and the turn and river. As long as no K, no 10, or no spade hit the board I would still feel pretty safe, but not overly as CS sometimes slow play flush draws and i could be outdrawn on the river.

#3 This again is a scare board but I must bet as I am likely ahead.

I notice one thing about calling stations and that is that they bet only when they have a part of the board or the top part of the board (possible nuts). Differentiating between the two types is often key to my approach.

Many thanks,

TC
 
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Sun Jul 31, 2011, 04:36 AM
(#9)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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My answers would be:

#1:
I am slow playing this one, and checking the flop much more often than not, even against a CS.

The reason for that is pretty simple: even a CS who does not have an A on this board is not really likely to call any lead bet I make after raising pre. If he does hold an A, he is pretty likely to bet if I check, and will likely pay me even if I delay a C/R until the turn. so I am not really "costing myself value" by checking here...

Also... I am likely going to get him to fold out a lot of hands he MIGHT bet, but with which he may not CALL (hands like 33/44/55/66/77/88 etc) if I lead.

My pre flop raise has really dried up the chance of any draw at all being here against me (would a CS be so wide as to really call a raise with 34/35?), and even if the only draw hands ARE on board they are gut shots, my top set is at very very minimal risk of a free card resulting in me being drawn out on.

#2:
I have again flopped the nuts.
(TTC, you really should practice being able to immediately I.D. the nut hand on a board. That is a very basic skill in Hold 'em, and one that is often so "obvious" people tend to over look its value. Your hand's value is only as good as its strength relative to the NUT HAND, so being able to "see" the nut hand immediately is important.)

This time though, the chance is much greater that I will be drawn out on if I do give a free card, as not only am I "vulnerable" to flush draws, but I am also vulnerable to KT/AK/Tx/9x either for a loss, or a loss to a chop. Because I am more vulnerable to ree cards, and also because there is no one to bet at all behind me, I would definately put out a bet of some kind.

The SIZE of my bet would be such to deny odds, but invite a call.

With 3 players who could call, the chances a draw which will beat me (or cause me to chop) has increased, although them checking may mean they do not have those draws. he play tendencies of the Villains though indicate that they will tend to "dis-believe" a BTN player of they hold something like 2nd pair, and they will almost certainly call on draws. so that presents me with a bit of a conundrum...

I COULD bet "strong", roughly 2/3rds to full pot, which is what I would tend to do with a hand like top 2 pr on this board. I would choose an that amount simply because I want to avoid the "schooling effect" of the first caller potentially giving "correct odds" to later villains to call. That could easily happen if I bet half pot or so. Consider...

Right now there are 4BB in the pot.
If I lead for 2BB, that is 6BB in the pot.
That amout is "enough" to deny odds to any flush draw, because he will have about a 19% chance (roughly) to hit on the TURN (I would get to bet gain on the turn if he misses, so he does not get full benefit of seeing turn and river).
This means villain #1 would need to see about 4 to 1 to call correctly, but my bet lays only 3 to 1.
BUT...
If Villain #1 calls incorrectly, and it is Villain #2 that has the flush draw, Villain #2 now DOES have the correct odds to call...see?

The "schooling effect" is the early acting players in multi-way pots acting in ways that are "mistakes", with the end result that LATER ACTING Villains (those with good "relative position" to my bet) could then call with CORRECT odds...see?

BUT...

My straight is significantly stronger than holding 2 pair or even a set here (not only because a my straight is the nut hand, but also because I hold "blockers" o many hands which may be drawing to a chop or a win versus me). A set or 2 pr here might be BEHIND already too...

So...

I would probably stick with around a half pot bet simply because I hold the nut hand now.

This size bet is not only more "inviting" to 2nd pair or weak top pair hands to call, thus gets me the value in the pot I want, but it also has me less exposed if a "scary" card does turn. the pot is then smaller, and as such a donk bet BIG in front of me on a really bad card could be relatively cheaply folded (if I feel strongly I am behind).

See?

#3:
I am oop here, and acting 1st.
In most cases my bottom 2 pair is a hand would bet on a lead, or try for a C/R on most boards because you are right: on most boards I probably AM ahead now.

But with 5 villains in, the risk of more than 1 sticking around is jsut too great for me to lead.
I have not voluntarily put anything into the pot now, so check/folding now is the equivalent to folding my BB to a raise (which I would do without hesitation holding 63o).

Also, the range of scare cards which could come on the turn is so great here, I am un-likely to see many turn cards I could confidently fire a 2nd barrel into if I do lead.

5 villains also means the chance I am behind with bottom 2 has gone way way up too.

This is a hand where I would seriously consider making a C/R only if the villain to my immediate LEFT were to bet small and there was no more than 1 caller. That would give me good relative position to see what the rest of the C/S are doing. If it goes past him though, at most I'd think of check/calling a small bet (very tiny, one giving me decent odds to draw at 4 outs to a boat), or even check/folding to a standard type bet.

See?

So...

the point is, the strenght of your hand, the number of cards which might make you a 2nd best hand, as well as the chance someone has enough to call or enough to bet behind you (depending upon if you check or bet), all bears heavily into your decision what to do with "strong" hands versus calling stations.

The big point of your hand above is that you had a very SMALL chance of haivng any flop hit you hard enough to give you the type of strong hand you could either confidently bet, or confidently slow play. so you essentillay put yourself into the "dangerous" spot of hand #3 here...

you MIGHT flop a top pair hand, that you THINK is "strong"...
you might then see it check aorund to you...
you might then see your ability to bet a 2nd barrel "dry up" on a lot of turn cards...
and...
with a lot of CS players around, you are probably NOT getting it HU very easily to make any top pair hit play better" for you.

Hope it helps.

Last edited by JDean; Sun Jul 31, 2011 at 04:43 AM..
 
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Sun Jul 31, 2011, 05:06 AM
(#10)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Really helpful JD.

#1 I like the idea of the slow play here as well, did not really consider as the best alternative, but now you have went through the hand I see it is the best play.

#2 Sorry my wording was wrong there. I know I have the nuts on the flop, what I meant was the stone cold nuts. My bet sizing off course was completely wrong, and this is an area I need real work on, and working out odds and probabilities is actually quite difficult for me. What I do see now though is that I have been pricing later acting villains in by betting weak when first to act. I have to do a bit more work on that area.

#3 I can now see the difference in two pair where I am probably ahead and strong and two pair where I am probably ahead, exposed and relatively weak.

Situations make the decisions more and more complex! Have you any recommended reading for working on odds and probabilities and bet sizing?

One final question. Do you think at the lower ring game levels that many of the players are advanced enough to be thinking about these things? Or are they likely to be found on 25NL and upwards? Whatever the case though I think it gives a significant edge over opponents if you do know this stuff and can put it into practice.

Thanks again JD, invaluable help to anyone looking to develop their game as always

TC
 
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Sun Jul 31, 2011, 06:38 AM
(#11)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
A simple rule of thumb for lower level games is:

Bet your hands for value, if you think they are ahead.

The major leak, and most common one, held by micro stakes players is a tendency to CALL TOO MUCH.

As such, you would be making a "mistake" quite often if you attempt to "get tricky" and use advanced betting lines versus most micro tables. More advanced lines a lot of times require you to know your OPPONENT is "aware" enough to read a story you are trying to tell with your betting to gain maximum value. That sort of awareness is not really common at micro stakes games. None of these betting lines above are "tricky" in anyway; they are all quite straight forward.

The results of "fancy play syndrome", the use of delayed floats, out of position bluffs, small bets to induce shoves, etc etc will quite often result in you simply losing value the weaker player would have paid into the pot with a much more standard, and usually "safer" betting line.

so if you do not deviate too far from the "standard" betting line of:

Maintain a pretty tight range that you can usually be confident in raising.
Raise to 3x or 4x (in a cash game) pre flop when you feel your hand is best.
C Bet roughly 1/2 to 2/3rds the pot on the flop if it is checked to you in position, or if you still think you are best.
Bet 1/2 to 2/3rds the pot on the turn if you think your hand is best, or check if your flop bet was called and you "missed".
Bet your better hands for value on the river...

You will do just fine in cash games at the micro level
 
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Sun Jul 31, 2011, 06:50 AM
(#12)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Thanks again JD.
 
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Sun Jul 31, 2011, 08:25 AM
(#13)
SpaceHiker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 35
BronzeStar
Hi, nice hand.
The preflop raise is quite OK to isolate the weak limpers if you think you can outplay them postflop quite often. K7o is not ideal starting hand, but you are in position.
But when the SB calls and it becomes 4 way pot I would tend to take the pot control line after even when I hit the flop this way. There are 2 players who showed interest in the pot, so I probably do not have the best hand now and my outs even might not be good if I hit.
But I like your play too. The flop is scary unless someone already hit the flush. You can make better flush draws to fold here (though I am not sure from how you described your opponents).
With your raise you might also slow down the action on turn and opt to get free river card in case you do not hit the flush on turn and its checked to you.
I like the bet on turn. You did the right read on SB, you hit your outs. To start to think that you flush might not be good here would not make much sense. (In that case you should have done such decision on flop already and not to start to build the pot with 9 outs.) and with this bet there is fair chance better flushes might fold as well.
Well you got unlucky in the end, but that happens.
Do not say that you should always play the hand like this and that it would be profitable in long term, but to mix some plays like this in your game to make it less readable for your opponents is good. After its easier to get paid when you really hit the nuts later.
Space

Last edited by SpaceHiker; Sun Jul 31, 2011 at 08:34 AM..
 

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