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The "Premier League" is the worst system of the history! We want the previous system!

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The "Premier League" is the worst system of the history! We want the previous system! - Fri Aug 05, 2011, 06:14 PM
(#1)
Thanat0s666's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 223
BronzeStar
The admins have taken a very bad decision doing the division system in the world league, the new Premier League is very bad, and I will explain why.

1- The luck is maybe the most important factor

This affirmation is based in the blinds and in the percentages. In this league the blinds begin in 20/40, then 30/60, 40/80, 50/100, 60/120 ante 10... In the first 50 minutes if you don't win any hand, you will have lost 690 chips, you will have only 810 chips for the next levels. If you played more hands, but without luck, maybe your stack will be in 600 chips or less.

In this phase still there are the 75% of the players, if there are 750 entries and you have 1500 points in the league, you will lose 11,65 points if you are eliminated in one of the following hands. If you go all-in with 8-8, 9-9, 10-10 or a lesser pair and the other have A-K, A-Q, Q-K, K-J, for example, you will be only 55% favourite, in the 45% of these cases you will lose 12 points, in the 55% of the cases you will up to 1500 chips, this means that if you don't play more hands you can arrive at 50% of the players, but in this phase you also will lose points, 375 of 750 entries means lose 5,82 points. If you go all-in when you have 700 chips, finish at 480 of the 750 entries means lose 8,45 points, and the most normal thing is lose 1 of 2 hands where you are 45-55% favourite, maybe you can win the first all-in, but you need a lot of luck to win two consecutive all-ins. Terrorific system.

Another case. You receive A-K in on of the first hands and other player receive A-Q, appears and ace in the flop, the other go all-in, you call and you up to 3000 chips. With this stack you can arrive at 35% of the players. In this phase you also will lose points, exactly 0,64 points. If you want add up an acceptable number of points you will need a profit of 3000 chips.

This study means that the first players in the leaderboard don't will be the players with the best strategy, but the players with more luck. If you go all-in with hands that are 55% favourite, maybe one player have a lot of luck and win 8 of every 10 of these hands, but other player only win 3 of every 10 of these hands. It will mean a difference of 200 or 300 points in the leaderboard between these players.

Always will be players with a lot of luck and these players will be in the top of the leaderboard. This don't means that these players are donks, they can be good players with luck, the donks usually play hands with 20-40% percentage, the donkeys never will win any league.

In the Open League or in the previous league systems is very different, because there are a lot of donks and always the players with a better strategy anti-donks will be in the top of the leaderboard. In addition, there are 6 tourneys per day, this reduces the luck factor, if you have bad luck in one tourney, you will have 5 more tourneys that day to recover the points.


2- The donks in the Premier League

In the Premier League abound the tight players, but still there are some donks, at least 2 of every 9 players are donks. These donks are raising and bluffing everytime. Maybe one of the users of this forums now are thinking "¡Welcome to the real poker!", but in the real poker there are no these donks, the people plays using good strategies, intelligent strategies, not donkey strategies. These donks do not care lose points, these donks only want enjoy disturbing the people, these donks don't want win money, only disturb.

In addition, these donks usually have a lot of luck, donks raising with 5-7o, you call with A-Q, don't appear and ace or a queen in the flop, but the donk raise or go all-in with any pair, with nothing, to steal the chips, they don't care be eliminated. ¿It happens in the WSOP or tourneys of hight buy-ins? LOL

The Premier League is not a real poker tourney, is a tourney with a tight players, with some donks, where only will win who have more luck.


3- Is more easy win 800$ in the Premier League or win 1500$ in the Open League?

I think is more easy win 1500$ each 2 months in the Open League that win 800$ or more every month in the Premier League. I think that the players that always were in the top of the leaderboard in the previous leagues, in this league will be very difficult to see any of these players.

For example, the winner of the previous month (|| Cote ||) now he have 1499 points in the Premier League, he played all tourneys, but the profit is one negative point. dR3am3R59 is a usual player in the top of the leaderboard each month, but now he have 1450 points, he have played 5 of 7 tourneys, profit of 50 negative points. I am also are a usual player in the top of the leaderboards, but now I have 1440 pts, I have subtracted 60 points. HectorCalder is a usual top player in the spanish league, he was 20th in the Open League in the previus month, but now he have 1486 pts (-14 pts). doobie818 is another top player, only have 1512 pts, the same points that Darkman61. SpaceHiker (2th in the June PSO) have 1478 pts, and CAMAROSTAN (3th in the June PSO) only have 1525 pts.

The leader have 1884 points, 444 points more than me, 350-400 points or more that the top players of the previous months. The player in the 7th place have 1667 points, more of 200 points that the top players. The leader, the previous month only was 512th, her results are very bad. He is the leader only because he is having very luck.

I can watch that very soon the top players will decide that is better go down to the Open League and win 1500$ that try to win the 5000$ in the Premier League, and he will see that is more easy win 1500$ every 2 months in the OL that win 800$ in the PL every month.

It will increase the luck factor, because these players will play very donk/aggressive in the first days to try to get a run of good luck and have more possibilities to win an acceptable money, if they have a run of bad luck he will begin to play bad expressly to lose points for go down to the Open League.


3- Please! We want a world league with only one division again!

I think it is the best for the players and for Pokerstars. Someone can think "If I can win 1500$ in the Open League with only 20 VPP, every month I only will do 20 VPP, or maybe in the Open League i will do 150 VPP for the Premier League, but before go down to Open League I only will do 20 VPP, I don't need more VPP to win the 1500$." This is the thought that can have the top players.

If 300 players think it, this means 39.000 VPP that Pokerstars will not win. It is 4680 dollars (profit of Pokerstars) or more in buy-ins. If 1000 players think it, it will be 130.000 VPP, 15.600$ that Pokerstars will lose. But it is not the only thing that Pokerstars will lose. If there is only one division will be a lot of players that will see that is better do the 150 VPP and win $5000 that do 20 VPP and win $1500. Maybe 5.000 players think it, it means 650.000 extra VPP per month, 78.000$ of profit for PokerStars.

But, if the people see that in the Premier League is very difficult win money, the people will prefer do only 20 VPP every month, these 5000 players will not do the 150 VPP, but only 20 VPP, this means that Pokerstars will be losing a lot of money (79.000$), will be losing a lot of potencial future clients that maybe very soon will be SylverStar, GoldStard or PlatinumStar, this means that Pokerstars can lose more than 100.000$ per month, because of the Premier League.

I'm sure that all the top players of the previous months will be agree that it's necessary unify the leagues, the world format is very good, but only if all people are in the same division. Maybe the players that now are in the top of the leaderboard in the Premier League thinks different, but the real top players of the league knows that it is very necessary, very soon the top players will go down to the Open League expressly and the most probably thing is that they only will do 20 VPP every month, instead of 150 VPP, and the people that now is playing the Open League he will see that is very difficult win money in the Premier League and they will not do the 150 VPP.

It is not necessary try to turn the league into one of the best tourneys of the poker, this league never will be real poker, never will be a site where learn real poker, always only will be a place where we can win a bit of money, an incentive to introduce the new players to the world of the poker, an incentive for these players do the 150 VPP to win the 5000$, always only an incentive, never a real poker. I and all the top players will be more motivated to play in one league where we can win 5000$ that play in a league that we can win $1500, I will not do 150 VPP this month or the next month if I see that is almost impossible win an acceptable money in the Premier League, I will prefer go down to the Open League, but if the admins are intelligent they will unify again the divisions with the same prizes that in the previous month, and when they do it I and all the top players will be motivated again, Pokerstars will increase 100.000$ or more per month their profits and everyone will be motivated and happy.

The system of 2 divisions are really bad, I think that if someone want play only versus the top players, for this exist the PSO Monthly, it is not necessary separate the players, with the PSO Monthly is sufficient, this system is not a good system to motivate the players.

I would like to open this debate and know that think the top players in the previous months that now are playing the Premier League.

=)

Last edited by Thanat0s666; Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 09:13 PM..
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 06:24 PM
(#2)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
LOL..... sorry had to

Personally, I disagree
Luck.....there's always luck, but you also have to play
Donks.........Those are players taking advantage of your weaknesses
Easier money.............NOT
World League........ I like what we have, maybe a few adjustments

Good Luck

Last edited by Sandtrap777; Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 06:28 PM..
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 06:34 PM
(#3)
Deleted user
Im sure people will agree with you but I do not in this case.

The one issue I had about the old league was people where able to play countless tourneys and clock to the money.
That was not poker and people are upset now because they did not learn a different way to play.
As with any change that has come forward we have adapted our games.

This is my belief and mine alone that a few people in the top 50 every week did not deserve to be there.
They had mastered the clock and would double up off a donk. If you want to learn than you would have no issue
against playing with skilled players and learning.

One of your points is about easier to win in the open league!
Is that what you really want out of this league?
You could always go play the open league every other month if its that important.

As for the donks in the PL league,this is the funniest part about peoples complaints.
These people come off as donks but you do not stand up to them,why is that?
What is a donk,some one that steals the blinds against a bunch of nits?
I have watched some so called donks and I think they have adapted better than others.
Change it up.

I must not understand or have been getting good tables since I have not come across this luck factor problem.
Like I have mentioned before,adapt and learn how to play in the new league.
I am not going to spell out how to play in the league,thats for each person to figure out what to do.

To close,you have a lot of supporters in your view but I am not one.
I love this new league and think adjusting the blinds or stacks would be a real buzz kill since the tourney is running 4 hours to just get to the money.
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 07:13 PM
(#4)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
I wonder how many of the top 10-20 leaders of the old pso have a positive ROI? I bet not too many...the old style was NOT poker, it was folding and stalling to try to make some $ and shoving when you are down to 200 chips and hoping to stay alive for another orbit

This new format requires people to use ICM strategy, use aggression, and have a post flop game.people need to download sitngo wiz, enter the last tournament they played in and see all of the errors that they made.. If you see an uber nit sitting to your left, raise him, make him uncomfortable, dont sit and wait for AA and then complain about someone who has been playing aggressively, stealing blinds, scaring people off of pots, who now has a very big stack calling you with "garbage" and winning

Dont say that there is no "skill" when it is probably true about your game only
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 08:21 PM
(#5)
FarrahnsMom's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 242
mtts are all about luck....if you cant win allin coin flips your tourny will be short.....gl F.M
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 08:50 PM
(#6)
ronh1967's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 376
i havent played any yet but i thought this is what we asked for a chance to play real poker,poker stars gave us what we asked for and id rather see this blind structure then the one last month in my opinion,to the people that havent played well make some adjustments because theres no easy points in the premier division and in my opinion there shouldnt be,to all the people that are complaining suck it up us players asked for better poker,gl every one
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 09:46 PM
(#7)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE IS HAVING TROUBLE ADAPTING


 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 10:05 PM
(#8)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,284
I like the new league - It's a new challenge!! Come on peeps, give it a chance, it's only been a few days!!
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 10:18 PM
(#9)
Thanat0s666's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 223
BronzeStar
LOL before post this reply I have done a study of the results in the previous leagues of some people to understand the replies. For example, now I understand that Sandtrap777 say that is disagree, because in the Premier League he is in the 133th place, but in the Open League he only finished in the 394th place, he is winning the same money. Now I understand why IseeCookies talks about the adaptation, he played 96 tourneys the previous month but only was 296th, is very funny because he talks about the adaptation but he couldn't adapt to this league. Now he is in the 90th place in the Premier League, but guy, you will not win money in this place, only 20$.

While I was writting this reply I received QQ in the tourney, i go all-in versus 2 players, one with A-J and the other with A-10. I lost, appears K-Q-J-10-3 in the table, they won with straight LOL this means that I will down more positions, now I am the 6th worst player of the league and soon I will be in the podium. LOL. The luck is a very important factor in this league, the system score is very cruel and the top players that will be a little intelligent will play in the Open League next month, I prefer try to win 1500$ in the Open League that win 20$ every month in this league, maybe Sandtrap777 and IseeCookies prefer 20$, but I prefer 1500$ =D Maybe the players that are talking about adaptation is because the couldn't adapt to the previous systems, maybe they are happy to win 20$, but someone that want win more money will be agree that this system is very bad, the worst system of the history, and that is very necessary unify the leagues again.
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 10:35 PM
(#10)
Deleted user
Well you got it all figured then,good luck in the future..lol
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 10:38 PM
(#11)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanat0s666 View Post
LOL before post this reply I have done a study of the results in the previous leagues of some people to understand the replies. For example, now I understand that Sandtrap777 say that is disagree, because in the Premier League he is in the 133th place, but in the Open League he only finished in the 394th place, he is winning the same money. Now I understand why IseeCookies talks about the adaptation, he played 96 tourneys the previous month but only was 296th, is very funny because he talks about the adaptation but he couldn't adapt to this league. Now he is in the 90th place in the Premier League, but guy, you will not win money in this place, only 20$.

While I was writting this reply I received QQ in the tourney, i go all-in versus 2 players, one with A-J and the other with A-10. I lost, appears K-Q-J-10-3 in the table, they won with straight LOL this means that I will down more positions, now I am the 6th worst player of the league and soon I will be in the podium. LOL. The luck is a very important factor in this league, the system score is very cruel and the top players that will be a little intelligent will play in the Open League next month, I prefer try to win 1500$ in the Open League that win 20$ every month in this league, maybe Sandtrap777 and IseeCookies prefer 20$, but I prefer 1500$ =D Maybe the players that are talking about adaptation is because the couldn't adapt to the previous systems, maybe they are happy to win 20$, but someone that want win more money will be agree that this system is very bad, the worst system of the history, and that is very necessary unify the leagues again.

SO WHERE DID YOU FINISH LAST MONTH ??


 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 10:51 PM
(#12)
Deleted user
I guess if he cant beat two schmucks like me and Sandtrap he better call it a day...lol
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 11:03 PM
(#13)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanat0s666 View Post
I prefer try to win 1500$ in the Open League that win 20$ every month in this league, maybe Sandtrap777 and IseeCookies prefer 20$, but I prefer 1500$ =D Maybe the players that are talking about adaptation is because the couldn't adapt to the previous systems, maybe they are happy to win 20$, but someone that want win more money will be agree that this system is very bad, the worst system of the history, and that is very necessary unify the leagues again.
I prefer try to win 5000$ in the Premier League that win 20$ every month in the Open league

Why do you keep comparing apples with oranges?
Compare the 1500 to 5000
And what's so funny is that you are so sure to finish first in the Open League since you are comparing the $20 to the $1,500...LOL....LOL

Anyway...... GL in winning $20
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 12:19 AM
(#14)
fuzzyamp's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 10
BronzeStar
Quote:

While I was writting this reply I received QQ in the tourney, i go all-in versus 2 players, one with A-J and the other with A-10. I lost, appears K-Q-J-10-3 in the table, they won with straight LOL this means that I will down more positions, now I am the 6th worst player of the league and soon I will be in the podium. LOL. The luck is a very important factor in this league, the system score is very cruel and the top players that will be a little intelligent will play in the Open League next month, I prefer try to win 1500$ in the Open League that win 20$ every month in this league, maybe Sandtrap777 and IseeCookies prefer 20$, but I prefer 1500$ =D Maybe the players that are talking about adaptation is because the couldn't adapt to the previous systems, maybe they are happy to win 20$, but someone that want win more money will be agree that this system is very bad, the worst system of the history, and that is very necessary unify the leagues again.
I was the A-10 in that hand as SB. Blinds were not huge yet but they were substantial. Thanatos was short stack in BB. Everyone folded to the button. Button (AJ) raised all-in. I was big stack and called. Thanatos called with QQ. It was a lucky hand for both the button and I to win, considering Thanatos flopped the set. It was unfortunate for Thanatos but I don't think any of our plays were wildly incorrect. Perhaps I could have released the A-10 but it was not much to call the button's all-in for me.

There is always going to be an element of luck in poker and it is true in the PL. The quality of play IS better than it was in the OL. And it seems to me that some players (so far anyway) are rising to the top of the leaderboard because they consistently finish well. Sadly I am not one of them. In the OL I did not play the clock game like so many others but I did have to play extra-tight. There was more than one time when I made it ITM while only playing 3 hands all tourney. I can't get away with that now. I have had to add a little looseness to my game in order to survive past 2 hours and as someone else pointed out, that doesn't even get you close to being ITM. I look at this league as a challenge that can be conquered but I can't expect to do it without improving my game. And for the record I am nowhere near the top of the leaderboard. Tonight's finish might get me back to a ranking of 1500 which would be good for about 700th place.
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 10:39 AM
(#15)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
I suspect we'll be getting a questionnaire before the month's over, but here's my solution.

Increase the starting stack to 5,000 chips.

Limit the # of games that can be played to an average of one a day (say 28 a month to be played whenever you wish) so that you also have time to eat, sleep and occasionally see friends.

That would get me interested again.
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 11:34 AM
(#16)
IonelG56's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 52
BronzeStar
I would like to put my 2cents in for this discussion. I am now sitting in the 4th position(was 3rd but couldn't play this morning's tournament). I have made two final tables up to now and I have to say that I had a lot of luck getting there, I would say a lot more than usual. So I totally agree with Thanat0s about this. But I don't agree with everything he said.
I will say this: I haven't played poker of this quality since I joined the site. I personally haven't seen that many donks, the only people I can see close to donks are the clockers, who were very efficient in the open league but in this league are just silly. I have played with sanya guliy and I must say he is a good player, very good.
Now at the end of the month we will see is what he said was true or not. You can't be unlucky all month. If you have skill you will reach at least one final table this month. So I am lucky today, but you are lucky tomorrow so it all evens out. If at the end of the month the people sitting in the top 5 positions have constant good positions then that means that luck had nothing to do with it. If it's the other way then Thanat0s was right. We shall see...
Gl to you all in the league with the best poker...

Oh, and I agree with what Darkman is saying...

Last edited by IonelG56; Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 11:37 AM..
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 02:50 PM
(#17)
Thanat0s666's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 223
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted user View Post
Well you got it all figured then,good luck in the future..lol
Ty, good luck to you with your extraordinaries 20 dollars, you will buy the Bahamas? LOL


Quote:
Originally Posted by hemetdennis View Post
SO WHERE DID YOU FINISH LAST MONTH ??
The last month I only played 48 of 180 tourneys and finished 500th, with more tourneys I had been minimum in the TOP 10, in the previous leagues I always have been leader during some days and the first month I was leader during 1 week (I won 250$), playing more tourneys I can win the league =D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
I prefer try to win 5000$ in the Premier League that win 20$ every month in the Open league

Why do you keep comparing apples with oranges?
Compare the 1500 to 5000
And what's so funny is that you are so sure to finish first in the Open League since you are comparing the $20 to the $1,500...LOL....LOL

Anyway...... GL in winning $20
Easy. You talked about the adaptation, but you are a bad player in the other leagues, you only won 20$ and you will not win more money in this league because if you are not able to win more money in the Open League is almost impossible that you will win any money in this league LOL

GL with your 20$, with the 20$ of IseeCookies you can buy an seaweed of the Bahamas =D


------------------

It seems that there are a lot of players that are excited with the new league, but soon or later they will think the same that me, when they see that they are winning 10$ or 20$ every month and that there are top players that gone down to the Open League and now they are winning 1500$, 1000$ or 750$, then they will change the mentality. Play 30, 60 or 90 tourneys to win 20 dollars is ridiculous.

---

Last edited by Thanat0s666; Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 03:07 PM..
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 03:03 PM
(#18)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemetdennis View Post
SO WHERE DID YOU FINISH LAST MONTH ??

The last month I only played 48 of 180 tourneys and finished 500th, with more tourneys I had been minimum in the TOP 10, in the previous leagues I always have been leader during some days and the first month I was leader during 1 week, playing more tourneys I can win the league =D

SO YOU DO GOOD IN THE WEAK O.L.
AND DO POOR IN THE STRONGER P.L.
OK I GOT IT NOW


 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 03:05 PM
(#19)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
LOL at equating PSO scores with being a good player.... you are so deluded and self important that you cant see the forest for the trees.. now your scoring system formula is a positive thing for the league.... but your self inflated poker ego is destroying any good you have accomplished..why not work on YOUR game instead of whining that I cant play enough or I would win the league monthly... This is like one of your first posts where you claimed you could easily beat the highest ever score, and easily make 2000+..how did that turn out?
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 03:06 PM
(#20)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
oh and cookies, when you buy the bahamas can I come visit??
 

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