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Continuation Bet

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Continuation Bet - Fri Aug 05, 2011, 09:34 PM
(#1)
$e7enFH's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 2
I read one of Daniel Negreanu's books again and you know in poker you have to be aggressive and everything right and it says go over the top and reraise them preflop and if they call take on more stab at it. But after for the continuation bet it says raise preflop like with AK and if u hit nothing or a draw then just check and save money. I get the checking and saving money thing cause that's how I play sometimes and I can be really tight but doesn't that mean you aren't aggressive at all, shouldn't u take a stab at the pot
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 09:38 PM
(#2)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Hiya $,

If you're asking why people slow down after c-betting and don't keep betting when people call them, it's because when people call you, they're telling you that they have something. If you don't have anything, than you're just putting yourself at a disadvantage if you bet, bet, bet all the time without a good hand. People just won't fold enough, especially if you have a reputation to always bet and bluff all the time.
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 09:59 PM
(#3)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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Definition of a C Bet:

A bet made on the flop AFTER RAISING to enter. You are "continuing" your agressive stance.

Reasoning of a C-Bet:

Generally, if you raise, you will tend to have a stronger than normal hand.
As such, those types of hands will usually be big un-paired cards, or medium to hi pp.

A C-Bet allows you to represent whichever of those 2 types of hands fit you best on a given flop.
Example:

You hold AK and the flop comes 2 8 9.
A C-Bet represents TT/JJ+

You hold 99 and the flop comes A Q 4.
A C-Bet represents AK/AQ/AJ.

This is a useful tool to use against opponents who have simply CALLED your pre-flop raise.

The realities of Hold 'em are that if you start with un-paired cards, you will MISS the flop about 2/3rds of the time. Also, the LOWER paired cards are hthat you start with, the greater the chance there is that at least 1 over card will appear on the flop to your pair. "Continuing" your aggression onto the flop gives you the widest number of options to get your tighter and more passive opponents to FOLD whether you have hit or not.

From this thought, it should be pretty obvious that versus looser, and/or more AGGRESSIVE opponents, your C-Bet frequency on misses should actually go down. This is true because looser players will tend to call your C-bets on a much wider ranege of draws, and hands like 2nd pair. More aggressive opponents will tend to raise you on such wider ranges if they tend to dis-believe your C-Bets.

What Daniel means by checking, and not betting very often on continuation with hands like AK is that when you MISS, you will still have "outs" to a top pair/top kicker type hand. This type of strategy is especially effective against the looser and agressive opponets who may view your check as "weakness" and attack you with hands which will be far behind if you do turn an A or a K.

If you C-Bet too frequently against these types with hands which do have solid chances at draws to improve to better hands than the LAG villains might hold, you tend to lose your chance to "peel" and spike a top/top hand. You;d lose that chane either:

A) Because they CALL your C-Bet, and you have no real chance with a turn check that they will give you a free card on the river with less than your AK (they will bet you off)...

OR...

B) You lead out, they RAISE you, and it is no longer a good price for you to draw at jsut over cards.

See?
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 10:04 PM
(#4)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDean View Post
Definition of a C Bet:

A bet made on the flop AFTER RAISING to enter. You are "continuing" your agressive stance.

Reasoning of a C-Bet:

Generally, if you raise, you will tend to have a stronger than normal hand.
As such, those types of hands will usually be big un-paired cards, or medium to hi pp.

A C-Bet allows you to represent whichever of those 2 types of hands fit you best on a given flop.
Example:

You hold AK and the flop comes 2 8 9.
A C-Bet represents TT/JJ+

You hold 99 and the flop comes A Q 4.
A C-Bet represents AK/AQ/AJ.

This is a useful tool to use against opponents who have simply CALLED your pre-flop raise.

The realities of Hold 'em are that if you start with un-paired cards, you will MISS the flop about 2/3rds of the time. Also, the LOWER paired cards are hthat you start with, the greater the chance there is that at least 1 over card will appear on the flop to your pair. "Continuing" your aggression onto the flop gives you the widest number of options to get your tighter and more passive opponents to FOLD whether you have hit or not.

From this thought, it should be pretty obvious that versus looser, and/or more AGGRESSIVE opponents, your C-Bet frequency on misses should actually go down. This is true because looser players will tend to call your C-bets on a much wider ranege of draws, and hands like 2nd pair. More aggressive opponents will tend to raise you on such wider ranges if they tend to dis-believe your C-Bets.

What Daniel means by checking, and not betting very often on continuation with hands like AK is that when you MISS, you will still have "outs" to a top pair/top kicker type hand. This type of strategy is especially effective against the looser and agressive opponets who may view your check as "weakness" and attack you with hands which will be far behind if you do turn an A or a K.

If you C-Bet too frequently against these types with hands which do have solid chances at draws to improve to better hands than the LAG villains might hold, you tend to lose your chance to "peel" and spike a top/top hand. You;d lose that chane either:

A) Because they CALL your C-Bet, and you have no real chance with a turn check that they will give you a free card on the river with less than your AK (they will bet you off)...

OR...

B) You lead out, they RAISE you, and it is no longer a good price for you to draw at jsut over cards.

See?
Fantastic Post JDean, i think you could write your own book
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 10:24 PM
(#5)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_eagle23 View Post
Fantastic Post JDean, i think you could write your own book
Possible titles:

Kill II CoTe ll

JDean's Little Green Encyclopedia

Don't Listen to JjeSterSharK (Unless 30 People Tell You To)

The Street Sign, The Race Horse, and the Cookie Monster

Last edited by PanickyPoker; Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 10:26 PM..
 
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Fri Aug 05, 2011, 11:02 PM
(#6)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
Possible titles:

Kill II CoTe ll

JDean's Little Green Encyclopedia

Don't Listen to JjeSterSharK (Unless 30 People Tell You To)

The Street Sign, The Race Horse, and the Cookie Monster
lolol
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 01:43 AM
(#7)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Decide to Write Great Posts

Killer Folding Your Way Into the Points

How I Made Over 1,000 FPP's Playing Poker (a.k.a. Awesome/Process)
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 01:53 AM
(#8)
adamsmith008's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 31
BronzeStar
thanks for that explanation Jdean. I have kept coming across C-bet and wondering what it meant. I do this but it is an area I really need work on. I am hoping to get some practice in the future over at 111dans home game area. Hope to see some of you guys there for the help.

Cheers.
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 02:23 AM
(#9)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
Freeroll Grinding for Advanced Players

Hold'em Wisdom for Shove-Monkeys

Secrets the Live Trainers Never Told You

I don't know if they're getting better or worse...
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 04:09 AM
(#10)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I can't really think of one for Ace on the River.
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 04:00 PM
(#11)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Loss on the River (to a RAG ACE)
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 04:06 PM
(#12)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
BTW...

Versus Looser Villains you really should C-Bet your marginal hits about as often as you'd C-Bet versus Tighter and mroe passive Villains.

Hands like TT on a Q23 board, or AJ on an K J 7 rainbow board are decent value bet hands versus loose palyers who do not have big aggro tendencies.

Versus Loose and Aggressive Villains though, a lot of these marginal value hands would be better played in pot control mode via flop checks. That way you can use your post flop skills to perhaps let them hang themselves on their aggro/cheese plays, or get away from your hand more cheaply if they are too aggro and push you too close to a committment point.

(NOTE: All these situations are on deeper stacks of course. Having a shorter stack requires a totally different set of considerations for post flop decisions)
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 05:25 PM
(#13)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanickyPoker View Post
I can't really think of one for Ace on the River.
The Ace from Space
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 05:35 PM
(#14)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
JDean, i think a lot of us could learn a lot from you. I'm just spit ballin here and feel free to say no but what if you had like a lesson of the day, or lesson of the week thing posted by you? That would be cool eh? I'm well aware of the live trainings but i'm talkin about a write up thing. Just an Idea...
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 06:19 PM
(#15)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
I posted 2 blogs with the idea of trying something like that, putting out a regular stream" of poker strategy thoughts...it was HARD WORK.

Since that's a ton of work, and I am not positive I'd want to commit to a steady schedule of content posting just as a "fun" thing. Right now, posting when I want to IS a fun thing...

Are you angling to be my agent ;-)

Anyone who does want to talk aobut poker in a live setting though, ask question, spitball ideas, or whatever, I do stop by Ventrilo a lot. That is a voice chat service where, with a mic, you can talk in real time (you WoW geeks are aware of it I'm sure).

If you would be interested in Ventirlo log in info for our channel, feel free to pm me, I'll give you the stuff needed to sign in.

Note: pretty soon our ventrilo group will be moving to Team Speak, a similar voice chat service. If you want info for that when it is set up, pop into ventrilo and we can see from the channel owner, Ol Mud, what the capacity of TEam Speak will be.

See ya's!

Last edited by JDean; Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 07:13 PM..
 
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Sat Aug 06, 2011, 07:28 PM
(#16)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDean View Post
I posted 2 blogs with the idea of trying something like that, putting out a regular stream" of poker strategy thoughts...it was HARD WORK.

Since that's a ton of work, and I am not positive I'd want to commit to a steady schedule of content posting just as a "fun" thing. Right now, posting when I want to IS a fun thing...

Are you angling to be my agent ;-)

Anyone who does want to talk aobut poker in a live setting though, ask question, spitball ideas, or whatever, I do stop by Ventrilo a lot. That is a voice chat service where, with a mic, you can talk in real time (you WoW geeks are aware of it I'm sure).

If you would be interested in Ventirlo log in info for our channel, feel free to pm me, I'll give you the stuff needed to sign in.

Note: pretty soon our ventrilo group will be moving to Team Speak, a similar voice chat service. If you want info for that when it is set up, pop into ventrilo and we can see from the channel owner, Ol Mud, what the capacity of TEam Speak will be.

See ya's!
Haha no biggie, and i would imagine that it would be a lot of work Anyone else wanna take the offer?
 

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