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What's the point of Mucking?

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What's the point of Mucking? - Mon Aug 08, 2011, 01:45 PM
(#1)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
Something i've been thinking about for a while now is what'd the point of mucking your hand when you can always go to instant hand history and look at it as soon as the hand is over?
Any thoughts?
 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 01:52 PM
(#2)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT
SO LETS KEEP IT QUITE



 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 02:02 PM
(#3)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Well in b and m play the better or raiser (no matter his position) can never muck, only the caller. But on line (at least here) if you're OOP you cant muck as the software goes around the table and shows the first hand in, and shows each better hand as it continues around. Odd but I guess easy to do. so if your o o p and the caller, you never get a chance to muck your hand, which is wrong, as the caller should only have to show his hand if he wins or decides to, and the bettor/raiser should always have to show their hand first win or lose. and if you're a caller and muck your hand, no 1 should ever be able to see that after the fact, so that's a glitch in the software I noticed a long time ago, and that really should be the resolved by Stars.
 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 02:16 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,476
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnestegg View Post
Well in b and m play the better or raiser (no matter his position) can never muck, only the caller. But on line (at least here) if you're OOP you cant muck as the software goes around the table and shows the first hand in, and shows each better hand as it continues around. Odd but I guess easy to do. so if your o o p and the caller, you never get a chance to muck your hand, which is wrong, as the caller should only have to show his hand if he wins or decides to, and the bettor/raiser should always have to show their hand first win or lose. and if you're a caller and muck your hand, no 1 should ever be able to see that after the fact, so that's a glitch in the software I noticed a long time ago, and that really should be the resolved by Stars.
Wrong, the callers hand can be seen at the request of any player who was dealt into the hand. The rule is in place to prevent collusion. Now, it's very rare to be requested, usually if the caller deems their hand no good they just fold and no one says anything (asking to see the hand when collusion is not suspected is considered very poor etiquette). But it can be seen if it goes to showdown.

Online the reasons to muck rather than show intentionally are:

1) many people don't realize they can see mucked hands that went to showdown via the instant hand history.

2) a surprisingly large % of players who do realize it are too lazy to be bothered most of the time unless a super interesting hand comes up.

3) Observers (perhaps someone in the same tourney scouting the table, or on the list for your cash game, or sitting out) can NOT see mucked hands that went to showdown, only players actually dealt into the hand can see them.

So no need to give away info for free to the masses that either can't see, are unaware they can see, or are just too lazy to bother.
 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 02:29 PM
(#5)
zlizard's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
So no need to give away info for free to the masses that either can't see, are unaware they can see, or are just too lazy to bother.
this
 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 02:30 PM
(#6)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
You're of course right dave, about anyone delt in CAN request to see, but almost never happens (i've never once seen it) though i've not even close to seen as much play as you i'm sure, but to not even have that option iff OOP online seems to me very wrong as the bettor/ raiser DOES have to show first in live play
 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 02:38 PM
(#7)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnestegg View Post
You're of course right dave, about anyone delt in CAN request to see, but almost never happens (i've never once seen it) though i've not even close to seen as much play as you i'm sure, but to not even have that option iff OOP online seems to me very wrong as the bettor/ raiser DOES have to show first in live play

I THINK YOUR WRONG HERE ON LINE THE CALLERS HAND IS ONLY SHOWN IF IT BEATS THE RAISER NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE SITTING OR YOU OPT TO SHOW AND IN THE REPLAY


 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 03:11 PM
(#8)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Try it dennis, from say the SB w/ funny money. I would,but cant as im at work on my phone, and tell us what happens. I pretty darn sure it doesn't even give you the option. Appreciate it if you would. Thnx
 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 03:27 PM
(#9)
ahar010's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 614
On number 3 there. I believe one of the observers here is an external website that observes all cash tables and will then illegally or not try and sell this information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Wrong, the callers hand can be seen at the request of any player who was dealt into the hand. The rule is in place to prevent collusion. Now, it's very rare to be requested, usually if the caller deems their hand no good they just fold and no one says anything (asking to see the hand when collusion is not suspected is considered very poor etiquette). But it can be seen if it goes to showdown.

Online the reasons to muck rather than show intentionally are:

1) many people don't realize they can see mucked hands that went to showdown via the instant hand history.

2) a surprisingly large % of players who do realize it are too lazy to be bothered most of the time unless a super interesting hand comes up.

3) Observers (perhaps someone in the same tourney scouting the table, or on the list for your cash game, or sitting out) can NOT see mucked hands that went to showdown, only players actually dealt into the hand can see them.

So no need to give away info for free to the masses that either can't see, are unaware they can see, or are just too lazy to bother.
 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 03:37 PM
(#10)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
I WAS RIGHT
IF YOU ARE SMALL BLIND AND THE CALLER DOES NOT SHOW IF YOU LOSE


 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 03:49 PM
(#11)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Ok thnx a bunch dennis, maybe thats been changed sinse I last played or maybe I was just mistaken. For sure wouldn't be the first time. Again thnx for the info. MY BAD
 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 04:02 PM
(#12)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
I've seen the WSOP players, and other TV games, who are the raiser on the river, get called, and then muck their hand and say to the caller, you got it. I've done it myself.
You don't have to show live. And I've never heard of a player requesting to see the mucked cards and being allowed to do so.

You'd be amazed at how many times I will call a players hand after they muck and then the player asks, "How do you know my hand?"
 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 04:02 PM
(#13)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
IF YOU WIN IT SHOWS YOUR HAND AFTER THE RAISERS BUT IT IS SO FAST YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE REPLAYER ON SLOW TO SEE IT
GOOD LUCK



 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 04:17 PM
(#14)
ketchup143's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 279
BronzeStar
i thought it was all based on position...if u r the most oop of all the players at the showdown, no matter what the betting sequence was, ur hand is shown...then, only better hands r shown automatically unless u choose to show it
 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 04:23 PM
(#15)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketchup143 View Post
i thought it was all based on position...if u r the most oop of all the players at the showdown, no matter what the betting sequence was, ur hand is shown...then, only better hands r shown automatically unless u choose to show it

NOPE


 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 04:26 PM
(#16)
the_eagle23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 231
Haha, and i was expecting just one simple answer
 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 04:29 PM
(#17)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_eagle23 View Post
Haha, and i was expecting just one simple answer

WE LIKE TO COVER ALL THE BASES



 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 04:30 PM
(#18)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
NO. 1 ANSWER IS DON'T GIVE AWAY INFO.



 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 04:33 PM
(#19)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,476
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketchup143 View Post
i thought it was all based on position...if u r the most oop of all the players at the showdown, no matter what the betting sequence was, ur hand is shown...then, only better hands r shown automatically unless u choose to show it
That's only the case if the river is checked down. If there is betting on the river, the final aggressor is first to show, and it goes clockwise around the table from them. This is the correct showdown order live, and online treats it this way as well.
 
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Mon Aug 08, 2011, 05:22 PM
(#20)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketchup143 View Post
i thought it was all based on position...if u r the most oop of all the players at the showdown, no matter what the betting sequence was, ur hand is shown...then, only better hands r shown automatically unless u choose to show it
I was also under this mistaken impression. Live n learn I guess. thnx for the info guys
 

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