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Seeking advice(s) - Sat Aug 13, 2011, 03:11 PM
(#1)
CLoneDJ3DI's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 14
In a nutshell, I won my first real money ($.42) today and am wondering on what a good course of action might be now. I am thinking just sitting on it until I can properly bankroll manage it, The cheapest sit'n'go seems to be $.10 (forget the big .02 one). Are there cheaper tournaments?
Another major consideration is PS, thanks be to the pokerschool in itself, I am currently ranking 400 or so in the Open on my first full month. SO, should I invest in VPP? how?
any and all advice is welcome unless it pertains to my mother of course...
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 04:15 PM
(#2)
dR3am3R59's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 110
Hi and congrats on your win.

I think (and probably most guys here would agree) that your bankroll is too low to consider playing real money tables, be it cash or sngs. In order to win vpps you'd need to play at those tables, so that's again a big no no.

You could consider depositing at least the min amount of 10$, or if you want to build from zero (and I can understand that) you should play more freerolls, trying to increase the bankroll.
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 04:44 PM
(#3)
CLoneDJ3DI's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 14
I was figuring along those lines as well. Thanks .
I needed to place in a decent tourney before even considering a deposit
I also realize I have alot to learn still...
ok tyvm Dr3am
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 04:52 PM
(#4)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
what dr3 said, keep doing what you are doing, build confidence, and your bankroll will grow too..dont worry about the VPP'S get them later
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 05:07 PM
(#5)
steveisnot's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 467
You are going to find it tricky with a $0.42 bankroll. There is alot about bankroll management around this site. That'll tell you what sort of br you'll need to play.

Although if it were me (and with my br management, it often is!), i'd take a pop at 10c 360's. You'll be hard pushed to cash in only four games, but you don't have much to lose. And if you do cash you have some chance of getting VVP's.

The games are a bit crazy. Not quite as bad as the open, but close. Blinds ramp up real fast. Maybe rail a few game to get a feel for 'em.

Good luck
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 05:31 PM
(#6)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
For the time being do EXACTLY what you did today...grind the Astronomer freerolls for Weekly Round 2 tickets and try to win some cash in those. This is not an easy slog as even though the general level of play in the Astronomers is pretty awful it is a long odds ticket (anywhere from 48-72 tickets in fields of 5500-9000 depending on the event).

Do you have a ticket for tomorrow's Round 2 yet? It's Limit Stud and goes at 2PM EST. If not get to grinding the Astronomers and get a ticket. Remember you can win the ticket in any Astronomer and use any ticket in any Weekly Round 2. My advice would be to have 2,3 or 4 Astronomers running at once,get as many Round 2 tickets as possible and try to play every Weekly Round 2 (only 2 each week--1 on Saturday that's always NLHE and 1 on Sunday that switches up to different variants--Stud,NLHE,FLHE,Omaha,etc...).

Learn how to play all the different variants,you may find one or two that become softer touches for you as far as getting tickets go (for example I had never played 2-7 Single Draw before and once I learned how I got to be darn near a 50/50 shot at a ticket when I played it). Just google each game,familiarize yourself with the rules and put a little time in on play money tables at each one---then take a crack at it in Astronomers. Remember you can't lose anything except time and you seem like you have a real interest in trying to make a go of doing something here,so if you're willing to invest the time this is where you start.

Also in the interest of time management remember that the Astronomer freerolls are SATELLITES--that ticket is just as good if you're #72 or the guy that wins a particular Astronomers--it's the SAME TICKET. So don't waste a lot of time trying to "win" an Astronomers--just get the ticket and get out. You get nothing extra by continuing to play once the ticket is secured.

It is entirely possible to grind up a Bankroll without ever depositing--many here have done it,myself included. I think you learn better BR management that way,learn to be more patient and learn to grind out advancement in increments. All are very good traits to learn for your on-line journey.

Also learn and start RIGHT NOW to devote a substantial portion of your time in studying. That's a great habit to get into ASAP. For now don't concern yourself too much in getting into "deep" concepts--they won't be needed where you'll be playing skill-wise to start. Just really drum into your head basic concepts and info on starting hand strength,position,stack management and bet sizing.

Until you can get enough money to try and grind out 20 VPP's so as to be "active" the following month (remember that you must do this EVERY month) then playing in the Open League has it's limitations as to what you can win money wise. That doesn't mean to give up on it,not at all. But the Astronomers and Weekly Round 2's should be your clear priority right now.

Good luck and do not be afraid to come to the Forum and ask questions--no matter how basic they may seem to be.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 05:39 PM..
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 06:08 PM
(#7)
johannfl's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLoneDJ3DI View Post
I was figuring along those lines as well. Thanks .
I needed to place in a decent tourney before even considering a deposit
I also realize I have alot to learn still...
ok tyvm Dr3am

I cannot emphasize this enough.... MAKE A DEPOSIT! I dont care what anyone else in here says.

There are different styles of poker and adjustments you need to made when playing a satellite vs. tourney vs. cash game, etc, but you will learn next to nothing playing the .02/.10 tourneys. You might as well be playing roulette.

If you enjoy poker as a hobby and especially if you want to take it seriously, it costs something. SO DOES ANY OTHER HOBBY! If you like playing video games, the games are like 50 bucks each, right? Golf, bowling, karate, music...I can't think of any hobby thats free. And why should it be? Why wouldn't you wanna spend some money on the things you enjoy?

Don't worry about getting way better first. You don't have to play the sunday million for $200 right away. there are plenty of tourneys and cash games anyone can afford where youll play higher caliber players than .02 hyper turbo bingo tourneys (and thats what u want if u wanna learn) and its so much more exciting when there's always the prospect of winning a nice chunk of cool cash.

Come to terms that you WONT make .42 into a good starting bankroll. The few that have challenged themselves and suceeded in taking a negligable bankroll and and turning it into a huge one are pros! And they grinded thousands of hands a day with multi tables for like a year.

Tom Dwan said that he made many many deposits before getting anywhere near as good as he is now, and so did everyone else.

A pso member and great player and me had a discussion a few months ago on this subject, and he said, "I see that there's 4 categories of bankroll magmt.

1-Frequent depositors who eventually learn the game and stop depositing.
2-The 'I will build a bankroll from nothing' type.
3-Frequent depositors who never learn the game and are very popular at the tables.
4-People that give up. "

Be the first one, and that entails studying hard. Go to videos and watch the Langoliers training classes. They are priceless. And I don't mean that in the sense that they are free. If you're learning you;ll see that you are making deposits less and less frequently.

If your serious about this game, take my advice. If this is just something you do when you get bored of playing Halo, then this doesn't pertain to you.

Cheers, Johann

Last edited by johannfl; Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 07:01 PM..
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 07:04 PM
(#8)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannfl View Post
I cannot emphasize this enough.... MAKE A DEPOSIT! I dont care what anyone else in here says.

Cheers, Johann
Way to hide your disdain for people.
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 07:34 PM
(#9)
johannfl's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted user View Post
Way to hide your disdain for people.
A girl told me a long time ago that I was the most passionate person she ever met. Not in a romantic sense, we were just friends. Now days passion becomes obsession and its a bad thing and youre sopposed to take a pill for it. and along with this comes being very opinionated. yes, i am passionate, to the brink of obsession over things i focus on. work, myself, anything. at th time i played guitar for a band her brother was drummer in. yes i was passioate about my playing and music. maybe i do have a slight psychological disorder, but i like it and wont take a pill for it like it seems the in vogue thing to do now days.

as for "my disdain for people" ...here's my response. Youre getting on my god**** last nerve; so ****off. Try posting something constructive one day.

Have a great day. cheers, johann.
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 07:43 PM
(#10)
johannfl's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
BronzeStar
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 08:43 PM
(#11)
dale442's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 553
Makin popcorn....anyone?

Dale
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 08:55 PM
(#12)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
I don't agree that you can't learn anything from the .10 tourneys, I'm one of those peeps that had to grind a bankroll from zero. I think I learned a lot along the way, that's why the school is here.

There are lessons to be learned at any level, and having the satisfaction of knowing you built from zero to a reasonable BR is a nothing to sneeze at either.

Having said all that, there is also nothing wrong with depositing and starting from a higher dollar level. Just make sure that you are using proper BR management, whatever your BR may be.
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 09:14 PM
(#13)
johannfl's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
BronzeStar
you know joy maybe i didnt mean literally u cant learn absolutly nothing. (i failed english but i think thats a double negative, lol) of course you can. and u know before i ever knew the coolness (is that even a word, lol) of hold em i played on the play money tables here, and i mean for a long time. and when i first passed the pso classes and played skill league i think i won like 2 or 3 bucks for getting itm a time or 2. and then i played the .25 tourney and got itm and then played ring games and made enough to play a $11 tourney. (tourney's my passion). didnt make it itm , then eventually deposited. just wanted to give advice that i wish someone told me, thats all. once i deposited, i had such a blast its unreal. sorry to sound so absolute, but u gotta admit being gold member, playing for money and play money or even .10 tourneys is like night and day, huh. really was just trying to share my love for the game. see u at the table sometime, and if so, may god have mercy on your pocketbook...kidding. johann

Last edited by johannfl; Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 09:39 PM..
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 09:31 PM
(#14)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannfl View Post
I cannot emphasize this enough.... MAKE A DEPOSIT! I dont care what anyone else in here says.

There are different styles of poker and adjustments you need to made when playing a satellite vs. tourney vs. cash game, etc, but you will learn next to nothing playing the .02/.10 tourneys. You might as well be playing roulette.

If you enjoy poker as a hobby and especially if you want to take it seriously, it costs something. SO DOES ANY OTHER HOBBY! If you like playing video games, the games are like 50 bucks each, right? Golf, bowling, karate, music...I can't think of any hobby thats free. And why should it be? Why wouldn't you wanna spend some money on the things you enjoy?

Don't worry about getting way better first. You don't have to play the sunday million for $200 right away. there are plenty of tourneys and cash games anyone can afford where youll play higher caliber players than .02 hyper turbo bingo tourneys (and thats what u want if u wanna learn) and its so much more exciting when there's always the prospect of winning a nice chunk of cool cash.

Come to terms that you WONT make .42 into a good starting bankroll. The few that have challenged themselves and suceeded in taking a negligable bankroll and and turning it into a huge one are pros! And they grinded thousands of hands a day with multi tables for like a year.

Tom Dwan said that he made many many deposits before getting anywhere near as good as he is now, and so did everyone else.

A pso member and great player and me had a discussion a few months ago on this subject, and he said, "I see that there's 4 categories of bankroll magmt.

1-Frequent depositors who eventually learn the game and stop depositing.
2-The 'I will build a bankroll from nothing' type.
3-Frequent depositors who never learn the game and are very popular at the tables.
4-People that give up. "

Be the first one, and that entails studying hard. Go to videos and watch the Langoliers training classes. They are priceless. And I don't mean that in the sense that they are free. If you're learning you;ll see that you are making deposits less and less frequently.

If your serious about this game, take my advice. If this is just something you do when you get bored of playing Halo, then this doesn't pertain to you.

Cheers, Johann

I strongly disagree with johannfl,insofar as saying that you HAVE to deposit for a couple reasons and one is right here staring you in the face...PSO.

Here's why---

If you can grind up to just a few dollars or so and then take that to the ring tables and play smart to garner your VPP's and get to the 20+ VPP level in the Open League for a couple months or so the money you can win there would be equal to or greater than a small ($100 or less) deposit. Stars is giving you an option in lieu of depositing to get a starting BR going.Even were you to come up a little short and just win $5-10 a month in the Open League it's still money that is getting you to the next step. And if you do learn to compete for the bigger prizes in the Open League,as bad as it is,there IS one major thing that you will learn there that will serve you well in the micro level MTT/SNG's and ring tables---patience.

You DO NOT have to learn by going Busto over and over as mentioned in player type #1 above,that's a self-defeating mindset to even entertain.

As for what can and can't be learned playing freerolls and the smallest buy-in events while it's true that there is an extreme shortage of good players to learn more advanced concepts from at these levels that type of play will not be needed at the micro levels for the most part. Simple ABC poker and how to learn to exploit the weaker players while identifying and fixing holes in YOUR game are the basic building blocks you'll need here.

As you go along and climb levels (hopefully) then you can learn more advanced concepts as you go. You have a long way to go before you'll be running into games where there are markedly more good/solid players than there are mediocre to bad players. A long way. Seeking out games where those players will be in abundance while still learning the basics you'll need to survive here is just pissing your money away. You'll be a popular player for sure---but there are plenty of them here in abundance already and most of them,the vast majority as a matter of fact,NEVER improve. Because they just jumped in,thought this is all about gambling instead of skill tempered by luck and never bothered to learn enough to even be able to identify and fix their weaknesses.

Lastly that $0.42 you won today is not a jumping off point of anything else like that--not yet. It's a piece. You should sit on it,keep grinding what you can get for free and wait until you have at least $10.00 dollars before you consider playing cash MTT's and SNG's. (That would be 100 buy-ins for the .10 games and/or 40 buy-ins for the .25 games,if you're capable of grinding $10 freerolling it then after watching some training videos you should be able to hang in these games.)

Now once you get a few dollars if you feel that you can make a run for the bigger money in the Open League then yeah,play some ring tables to get your VPP's for the next month. Play very,very tight and focus first and foremost on the VPP's. Remember you only have to be dealt into a hand to earn VPP's.

This is NOT intended to discourage you from depositing if you feel that's the route you want to go.There is absolutely nothing "wrong" with depositing,per se. But do NOT become the 5th type of player---the ones for whom the ability to deposit becomes a "crutch" and they just stay on a treadmill of sorts,leaking off their money from one deposit to the next.

It's entirely possible to succeed here without depositing and whether you do or don't the single most important determining factor in whether you will succeed or not--your desire to WORK at improving--will not change.

Good luck in which ever path you take.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 09:38 PM..
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 09:47 PM
(#15)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannfl View Post
you know joy maybe i didnt mean literally u cant learn absolutly nothing. of course you can. and u know before i ever knew the coolness (is that even a word, lol) of hold em i played on the play money tables here, and i mean for a long time. and when i first passed the pso classes and played skill league i think i won like 2 or 3 bucks for getting itm a time or 2. and then i played the .25 tourney and got itm and then played ring games and made enough to play a $11 tourney. (tourney's my passion). didnt make it itm , then eventually deposited. just wanted to give advice that i wish someone told me, thats all. once i deposited, i had such a blast its unreal. sorry to sound so absolute, but u gotta admit being gold member, playing for money and play money or even .10 tourneys is like night and day, huh. really was just trying to share my love for the game. see u at the table sometime, and if so, may god have mercy on your pocketbook...kidding. johann

See man,what you're saying here is exactly why I say that you DON'T have to deposit to make it here.

You're right on point in thinking that tourneys are where it's at---there is simply no other way to greatly increase ones BR in one fell swoop than a big "pop" in a MTT.

But if one learns proper BR management and how to find plays that carry much less variance than MTT's do (whether it's ring tables or SNG's) and learn how to use those tables to fund their MTT excursions then that player is going to be consistently profitable.

And learning how to do that has nothing to do with depositing or not.

To me the player that grinds up from zero is more likely to be the player that learns the value of the lower variance options and how to find a consistent money maker in those for themselves each step of the way than is the player who just deposits over and over with no clear plan before they even load up a game.

Either way is fine,but the depositing/not depositing thing ain't gonna be the determining factor in how far a player can go.
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 09:56 PM
(#16)
johannfl's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
See man,what you're saying here is exactly why I say that you DON'T have to deposit to make it here.

You're right on point in thinking that tourneys are where it's at---there is simply no other way to greatly increase ones BR in one fell swoop than a big "pop" in a MTT.

But if one learns proper BR management and how to find plays that carry much less variance than MTT's do (whether it's ring tables or SNG's) and learn how to use those tables to fund their MTT excursions then that player is going to be consistently profitable.

And learning how to do that has nothing to do with depositing or not.

To me the player that grinds up from zero is more likely to be the player that learns the value of the lower variance options and how to find a consistent money maker in those for themselves each step of the way than is the player who just deposits over and over with no clear plan before they even load up a game.

Either way is fine,but the depositing/not depositing thing ain't gonna be the determining factor in how far a player can go.

moxie

i still feel 100% that the advice i gave was the best and abso;utely correct and therefor tried to even back it up with some facts and things ive heard dwan say etc.

however, considering the fact that the original question / thread wasnt about that at all, and that you gave such an insightful and thoughtful answer, i think i owe u an aplology for sounding as if i knew everything, especially right after your post. sorry, man.
youve always tried to be helpful and friendlty to me unless i was acting like an ***hole.

stay cool, johann.
 
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Sat Aug 13, 2011, 10:12 PM
(#17)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannfl View Post
moxie

i still feel 100% that the advice i gave was the best and abso;utely correct and therefor tried to even back it up with some facts and things ive heard dwan say etc.

however, considering the fact that the original question / thread wasnt about that at all, and that you gave such an insightful and thoughtful answer, i think i owe u an aplology for sounding as if i knew everything, especially right after your post. sorry, man.
youve always tried to be helpful and friendlty to me unless i was acting like an ***hole.

stay cool, johann.

No apology needed johann,your passion for this always comes through in your posts and that's never a bad thing.

And for some (many?) players I think that your first post here is correct actually--if a player is a little more advanced and comes in here with a modicum of poker skills then I see nothing wrong with depositing and diving right in.

My main focus in the OP'ers statements though is when they say that they have "a lot to learn still". That tells me that CloneDJ is most likely a newer player. For that type of player I just think they're better served to try and grind it out on the freeroll path and take it slow and steady. Earn while you learn and for free,if you will. Just my opinion though as I don't think there's necessarily any "right" or "wrong" call on depositing.

Like I said,IMO whether you deposit or not is NOT what's going to tell the tale for a player,it's what you do with the opportunities that your BR provides you---however that BR is established.

Shoot man I just wanna get back on the tables here,same as you. Because you're right about one thing for sure---I too came to love playing here.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 10:16 PM..
 

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