Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Poker Education & Beginners Questions / Old Hand Analysis Section /

bottom set on a straight flush board

 
Old
Default
bottom set on a straight flush board - Sat Aug 13, 2011, 03:19 PM
(#1)
pokerstar671's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,206
Just wondering how otheres would play this.
 
Old
Default
Sun Aug 14, 2011, 10:24 AM
(#2)
havocofsmeg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 489
Personally, pre flop, would of just checked, mid pairs like 66 are too speculative for a raise. On the flop, I like the small probing bet, but would of raised half the pot to test the waters. To me, the call (and the way he generally played) screams fish. Once you hit the full house on the river, if he is a calling station it's probably worth cranking up the aggression as the odds of him having better are slim, so I'd be doing pot sized bets from here out.
 
Old
Default
Sun Aug 14, 2011, 01:57 PM
(#3)
PanickyPoker's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,168
I think 66 is definitely strong enough for a raise preflop, since it's pretty hard to make a pair heads-up.

I strongly dislike the flop bet because it prices in someone to draw with a heart. You're doing nothing to protect your set, which is not good. The villain's call doesn't mean much because you did little more than check, so their call certainly does not scream 'fish'. You failed to protect your hand on any street/build a big pot for when your set ended up being good. When you filled up and the flush got there, I think you should have just hoped that he was drawing with a good heart and made a massive bet. He could have had the ace, so an overbet-jam might have even worked. But really, the key skill to improve here is value extraction. You're not really profiting when your villains don't even need implied odds to hit their draws.
 
Old
Default
Sun Aug 14, 2011, 05:33 PM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
I'd have bet a bit more on the river.... as much as you think the opp would call, since they probably had a flush. I'd have also bet a bit more on the flop, as Panicky stated, you priced in a flush draw (which you don't want to do unless you have a full house).
 
Old
Default
Sun Aug 14, 2011, 11:00 PM
(#5)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Pre Flop:

I am checking behind a lot more often than raising.

Reason:
66 is not the sort of hand which "likes" a larger pre flop pot.
It will not flop a set often enough, nor will it see any "strong" flop often enough to really feel good about investing early.
If your SB opponent has very strong discipline, and if he will either fold to the raise OR fold to a C-Bet quite often, then a raise isn't bad, but in a blind on blind confrontatation, opponents tend to stick around longer ith hands liek 2nd or 3rd pair, and since these hands will often be BETTER than 66, that is BAD for your raise.

Flop:

After flopping a set, I am definately firing a bet more often than not behind the villain's check on this coordinated flop, but I am NOT betting 75.

Reason:
Whenever you bet, you must have a solid REASON for betting.
"Half Way" reasons do not count...

Was this a bet to BLUFF, meaning it was made to get better hands to fold?
If so, what hand better than bottom set could fold on the board for a 25% pot bet?
Even the NITTIEST players with 2nd or top set would peel the turn for that price...

Was this a bet for VALUE, meaning that you felt you were going to get paid by draws?
If so, you did not DENY a proper drawing price to any single card flush draw.
This means you left TOO MUCH alue on the table because you allowed your drawing opponent (if he is drawing) to make a CORRECT DECISION by calling you with a flush draw. If he were going to call on a draw, he would have probably called MORE than this.

While there may be reasons for making a bet of this size, unless you KNOW those reasons and are basing them on solid reads (info for which you do not supply), after this villain checks I'm much more apt to bet 1/2 pot or so here. That is enough to deny a good price for draws, but is also not so much that I am going to go roke if the villain re-shoves me.

Turn:

Same as the flop stuff.

You bet a bit over 1/3rd pot when you boated. Fact is, this probably leaves some alue on the table.
I'm less fussed over that value left on the table than I am about the sizing of the flop bet, only because at this point if you ARE beaten, a 2nd half pot+ bet wil start sticking you hard. I think in most cases with this sort of check/call pattern by the viallin, I am feeling pretty safe in making a 2nd half pot or so bet.

River:

Same.

You left some value out there, as the only real draw the villain might have been chasing just got there. I'd have bet probably right around 2/3rds pot.
 
Old
Default
Mon Aug 15, 2011, 12:29 AM
(#6)
Oku_Ha_FooLs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 188
I like the way you played it seems standard 2 me?
Personally im a real big fan of keeping my bet sizes small to induce a ton, which you did well except he jst called down either way nice......
Prolly the bet on the flop tho i would rather bet half pot but bleh watever, good job i guiess
 
Old
Default
Mon Aug 15, 2011, 02:11 PM
(#7)
pokerstar671's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,206
Thanks every one for your advice and analysis. Very good info stuff I didnt know about. Sorry its hard for me to put in words exactly what I was thinking in this situation.
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com