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I would like an explanation

 
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I would like an explanation - Mon Aug 15, 2011, 08:58 PM
(#1)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,507
This hand I feel requires some kind of explanation.

I can understand folding if you think you are beat, but for the sake of SIX chips ?

Even if the bet was a total bluff, there can be no reason for this action, excepting maybe Collusion.

PokerStars Game #66071320091: Tournament #416802186, $0.50+$0.05 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2011/08/15 20:28:34 ET
Table '416802186 1' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: greycowboy (6255 in chips)
Seat 2: AusYabby (6207 in chips)
Seat 4: awesomo3012 (15736 in chips)
Seat 6: Bill Curran (736 in chips)
Seat 8: Prince Dale (2856 in chips)
greycowboy: posts the ante 50
AusYabby: posts the ante 50
awesomo3012: posts the ante 50
Bill Curran: posts the ante 50
Prince Dale: posts the ante 50
Bill Curran: posts small blind 200
Prince Dale: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Bill Curran [2d 8s]
greycowboy: calls 400
AusYabby: folds
awesomo3012: folds
Bill Curran: folds
Prince Dale: checks
*** FLOP *** [7c Tc Ah]
Prince Dale: checks
greycowboy: bets 1200
Prince Dale: calls 1200
*** TURN *** [7c Tc Ah] [Th]
Prince Dale: checks
greycowboy: checks
*** RIVER *** [7c Tc Ah Th] [Ad]
Prince Dale: checks
greycowboy: bets 1200
Prince Dale: raises 6 to 1206 and is all-in
greycowboy: folds
Uncalled bet (6) returned to Prince Dale
Prince Dale collected 6050 from pot
Prince Dale: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6050 | Rake 0
Board [7c Tc Ah Th Ad]
Seat 1: greycowboy folded on the River
Seat 2: AusYabby folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: awesomo3012 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Bill Curran (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: Prince Dale (big blind) collected (6050)

 
Old
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Mon Aug 15, 2011, 09:04 PM
(#2)
PaidInFull6's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 342
Perhaps a missed club draw or counterfeited pair of 7's he turned into a bluff but did not want to showdown.
 
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Mon Aug 15, 2011, 09:09 PM
(#3)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
if thats not a chip dump I dont know what is....raise it up to within 6 chips then fold? come on... busted draw my rrrrrrrss
 
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Mon Aug 15, 2011, 09:29 PM
(#4)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Since this was for money, PLEASE send it to support and mention chip dumping
They are both from the same country, so very good possibility
 
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Mon Aug 15, 2011, 09:59 PM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
Since this was for money, PLEASE send it to support and mention chip dumping
They are both from the same country, so very good possibility
+1 Please send immediately to PS support.
 
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Mon Aug 15, 2011, 09:59 PM
(#6)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
report it.

I'd call that last 6 chips there and play board if I had to.
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 12:49 AM
(#7)
Deleted user
bump needs more love imo.
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 01:27 PM
(#8)
Oku_Ha_FooLs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 188
lol i love these guys in the hand its hillarious
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 04:32 PM
(#9)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,507
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
+1 Please send immediately to PS support.
Was sent about two minutes after the hand was played.

Support said an investigation was started, could take two weeks.
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 09:27 PM
(#10)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curran View Post
Was sent about two minutes after the hand was played.

Support said an investigation was started, could take two weeks.
By the way bill...

How is Queen Lillybet, and the heaving mass of bubble and squeek?
 
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Sun Oct 02, 2011, 09:38 PM
(#11)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
well what happened??
 
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Sun Oct 02, 2011, 09:52 PM
(#12)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
YES I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED
STONE BLUFF THAT GOT CALLED ?
MISS CLICK ??


 
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Tue Oct 04, 2011, 12:52 AM
(#13)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
BUMP


 
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Tue Oct 04, 2011, 11:00 AM
(#14)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,507
This is the E.mail I got from PokerStars Security regarding this matter.

I had to retype the message, as for some reason I don't seem able to copy and paste from my E.mail provider.

I hope that re-posting this in the Forum does not infringe any of the Rules ?

If it does, Joe or Brian please delete.

Hello William,

Thank you for your report.

PokerStars continually monitors the games for collusion, and we sincerely appreciate you bringing your concerns to our attention. Following your report, we have completed an investigation into the accounts of players 'greycowboy' and 'Prince Dale'.

One of the most important aspects of a case we consider when reviewing a case for collusion is whether or not the suspect players have a relationship. Key in trying to determine the nature of a relationship, if any, is location. In this case, one player lives in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, and the other Broxbourne, Location, however, is generally not a good indicator as to whether cooperative play is occurring or not. It is noteworthy, but in and of itself is not sufficient.

Aside from location, we use a variety of tools and methods to assist us in determining whether or not relationships exist between players. One of the things we look at is their frequency of play together. Given how many players are playing on PokerStars at any given time, it would be unusual for seemingly unrelated players to frequently end up at the same table. The players in this case have only played 7 of their tournaments together. This fact, along with the other data we considered, confirm that these players do not seem to have a relationship with one another.

No collusion review could be complete, though, without a thorough review of the play itself. An advantage of online poker, as compared to live poker, is that every hand is recorded, allowing for a complete review. If any play is considered suspicious we can review the hands with all cards showing.

When reviewing tournament play for possible collusion we check for the following:

1) Best hand playing - where colluding players play only the better of their two hands.

2) Soft playing - where colluding players refuse to play aggressively against each other. For example they may check or fold against each other where they would normally bet or raise against a stranger.

3) Chip dumping/Stack balancing - where the large stack folds to the small stack to balance their chips. The idea is to improve the chances of both players finishing in money positions in a tournament.

We found no evidence of any of this suspicious play. I have located the hand you have referred to and attached it below:

(SEE POST #1 FOR THE HAND HISTORY)

I agree that this hand looks unusual however, we can't conclude that these players were colluding from this one and only isolated occurrence. Whilst we can't say for certain why the player folded here we can definitley provide you with a few possibilities. Please consider the following:

1) It was a miss-click. We have some of the best multi-tablers on our site constantly making such mistakes, they are very common and the price that many multi-tablers pay for playing in a large number of events at the same time. Another reason for miss-clicking could be that they were doing something else on their computer in the background such as downloading some music or browsing the Internet which could have caused them to take the wrong action when the table popped up. Please understand that be it online or live, all poker players regardless of their skill level have made the wrong fold (or call) at some point throughout their poker career.

2) It is possible that this player, not aware of the small number of chips their opponent had moved all-in with, based their decision only on their own cards. In such situations it is certainly possible that some players, even those playing large stacks, play incorrectly, considering only their own hands, and not properly weighing their opponents' chip count.

3) The player could not justify calling any size bet given the weak hand they held. Calling may have seemed meaningless as they were fairly confident they were not going to win the hand no matter what happened. A player familiar with ideal strategy would be inclined to call this all-in with almost any two cards. However, not all players understand this concept and how it is profitable to call all-ins, in such spots.

Please understand that we are not offering excuses, just possibilities to complement the facts of our detailed investigation. Yes, it is true that these reasons may seem like rare or wild occurrences but they are very common in an online environment happening multiple times a day on any poker site.

Given the lack of any relationship between their accounts, the relatively rare play together, and the lack of any suspiciously played hands, there is no evidence to suggest these two players are cooperating at our tables.

I have placed notes in both players' accounts indicating your concerns and the result of this review.

Once again, thank you for your report, and for choosing PokerStars.

Regards,

Kiel
PokerStars Game Security Team
 
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Tue Oct 04, 2011, 12:09 PM
(#15)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
a big lol at that response
 
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Tue Oct 04, 2011, 01:28 PM
(#16)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
I totally agree with the decision
There is no proof of wrong doing even though it looks fishy
Now that they both have a file, I hope that any players noticing something fishy will report it and if his file grows, than I'm sure action will be taken

3 strikes your out, just like in the US
 
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Tue Oct 04, 2011, 03:29 PM
(#17)
Deleted user
3 strikes is most likely the goal but no where near the reality.

If you want to know why I am so heavy on cheats all you have to do is look at this thread.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-stars-791760/

I post in it and I was effected by it,nothing came for me in compensation,I even sent in the hands that showed them playing the bubble.I played a lot of $109 DONs back then and as a new player did not think Stars would allow this extent of collusion.
I even thought they would compensate us all fairly,this is why I get on cheaters cases.
They do it in the micros they are going to do it in the higher limits.

I think every one saw me go through the whole agonizing reporting with De Hitman to keep getting the same response as above in Bills post. How could that be when they promised to
note his account? I tested them and realized they dont even read the email you send but the hand history and nothing but. Ive had them send back responses using my middle name,misspelled user name and this after pleading that they dont send me this cookie cutter response. Didnt matter
I got it any ways.

I agree Roomik it is a joke,but the sad truth is that they are better than all other sites.
SO all we can hope for is that when the American market comes back they have stiffer guidelines.
Till then its the wild wild west.
 
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Tue Oct 04, 2011, 03:35 PM
(#18)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
make being caught cheating a felony, with immediate forfeiture of funds etc... I think when all is finally regulated we will all be better off!! first thing they need to do is give chat mods more power.. you can only call them for language and they have to it seems ignore collusion being talked about.... all they say is email support... would it not carry more weight if one of their own is able to note it too??
 
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Tue Oct 04, 2011, 03:39 PM
(#19)
Deleted user
I hope that happens or online poker is going to die.
 
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Tue Oct 04, 2011, 03:45 PM
(#20)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
yup the more safe and secure it is the more fishies come to swim!!
 

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