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Duplicate Poker Hand #3: PRE FLOP (pt 1) do not read Dave.

View Poll Results: What do you do?
FOLD 0 0%
CALL 6 46.15%
RAISE Small: 3700 to 4625 to go (min raise to 1.5 times raise) 2 15.38%
RAISE Medium: 4626 to 6425 to go (1.5 times raise to 2.5 times raise) 2 15.38%
RAISE Large: 6426 to 9250 to go (2.5 times raise to 4 times raise) 1 7.69%
OVER BET: 9251 to ALL-IN to go (4 times raise to all-in raise) 1 7.69%
Abstain (blank vote for JDean to track progress, plz do not choose!) 1 7.69%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Duplicate Poker Hand #3: PRE FLOP (pt 1) do not read Dave. - Tue Aug 16, 2011, 01:10 AM
(#1)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
ACTION PROCEEDS...

BB = Lisa The Librarian in seat #4, posts 600 + 75 ante (55,075 behind)
SB = Mort The Mouth in seat #3, posts 300 + 75 ante (13,975 behind)

BTN = TheLangolier in seat #2 (33,825 behind after 75 ante)
C.O = YOU in seat #1 (33,850 behind after 75 ante)

POT = 1575

Seat 5: Kevin FOLDS

Seat 6: Posts the ante, and is folded in turn.

Seat 7: Steve FOLDS

Seat 8: Jean FOLDS

Seat 9: Tom McEvoy RAISES, making it 1850 to go.

Actions is on...

Seat 1: YOU
You look down and see AhQh, what do you do?

FOLD
CALL
RAISE Small: 3700 to 4625 to go (min raise to 1.5 times raise)
RAISE Medium: 4626 to 6425 to go (1.5 times raise to 2.5 times raise)
RAISE Large: 6426 to 9250 to go (2.5 times raise to 4 times raise)
OVER BET: 9251 to ALL-IN to go (4 times raise to all-in raise)

Please post your choices and your votes within about 2 days...thanks!
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 01:12 AM
(#2)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
testing.
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 01:51 AM
(#3)
Deleted user
I am happy with raising light to encourage the SB to shove over top or get a call out of McEvoy and play some post flop. We have position in this situation and are only in rough shape if Dave makes a play having position over us.
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 02:07 AM
(#4)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted user View Post
I am happy with raising light to encourage the SB to shove over top or get a call out of McEvoy and play some post flop. We have position in this situation and are only in rough shape if Dave makes a play having position over us.
Can you give an EXACT amount you;d raise.

I have the decision tree set for whatever you guys do within the RANGES given above, but the EXACT pot sizes can only be determined by using amounts you guys give.

If all you post is a range, then I must "guess" within the range at the exact amount.

If you post an exact amount though, then I will average all the amoutns within the range to come to the actual bet size.

Thanks.
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 10:14 AM
(#5)
yahooza1's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 141
BronzeStar
interesting hand about to play out here. i see Dave has the button. maybe he's gonna be fancy and 3 bet ATC with his position.i'm gonna opt for a 2.2X raise here so 1320 just in case we do get 3 bet by him, smaller raise here could save us some chips if he does decide to 3 bet. could be a good opportunity to trap Dave if he is planning on bringing out a fancy ''in position'' play


BTW the poll options are all off, selecting medium because in brackets it says 1.5 times raise to 2.5 times

bet 1320
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 10:26 AM
(#6)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by yahooza1 View Post
interesting hand about to play out here. i see Dave has the button. maybe he's gonna be fancy and 3 bet ATC with his position.i'm gonna opt for a 2.2X raise here so 1320 just in case we do get 3 bet by him, smaller raise here could save us some chips if he does decide to 3 bet. could be a good opportunity to trap Dave if he is planning on bringing out a fancy ''in position'' play


BTW the poll options are all off, selecting medium because in brackets it says 1.5 times raise to 2.5 times

bet 1320
You are not the open bettor, Tom McEvoy has already opened the pot, making it 1850 to go.

Hence a min raise now would be 1850 +1850 = 3700 to go.

See?

This means you must raise to AT LEAST 3700 to go, if you are going to raise.
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 10:33 AM
(#7)
yahooza1's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 141
BronzeStar
oh yes silly me, i didn't properly read it, slap on the wrist for me!! can i change to call then please?

oh i should add some reasoning to the call also- mcevoy is the tight player of the table and unless he's changed gears and started to open up then i'm ranging him on TT+ or AK but our AQs could play well with the right flop. if we 3 bet mceoy do we call to a potential 4 bet? i don't think s, so lets try see a flop and take it from there.

Last edited by yahooza1; Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 10:45 AM.. Reason: add on
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 12:06 PM
(#8)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
interesting solid player sandwich we have ourselves here. gonna have to think about this 1 for a bit
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 01:14 PM
(#9)
77wopke77's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
BronzeStar
I would just make the call, it 's the first hand of the day and behind me there are 3 more people to come where i have almost no Information on. So 3 more actions or no actions pre flop and the stiffest player that i have à read on opens with à raise.

Hè openend up à little, so at this position on the teable hè must have at least AJs AQs or any AK. I just don't believe hè suddely opensup with low pairs or suites connectors.
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 01:16 PM
(#10)
PaidInFull6's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 342
I vote call, take a flop in position.

First in from the hijack seat I'm giving McEvoy an opening range of 77+, ATs+, AJo+, KQs, KQo.
AhQh has 50% equity vs this range. If we3 bet we fold out ATs, AJs, AJo, KQo, KQs, 77, 88 probably folds AQo as well. Which leaves us playing 99+, AQs+, AKo. AhQh has only 37% equity vs this range. If we raise now the range McEvoy continues with is probably 4 betting and I think we have to fold to a 4 bet form McEvoy. I think our best play is to call and play against McEvoy's entire range in position.
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 01:49 PM
(#11)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaidInFull6 View Post
I vote call, take a flop in position.

First in from the hijack seat I'm giving McEvoy an opening range of 77+, ATs+, AJo+, KQs, KQo.
AhQh has 50% equity vs this range. If we3 bet we fold out ATs, AJs, AJo, KQo, KQs, 77, 88 probably folds AQo as well. Which leaves us playing 99+, AQs+, AKo. AhQh has only 37% equity vs this range. If we raise now the range McEvoy continues with is probably 4 betting and I think we have to fold to a 4 bet form McEvoy. I think our best play is to call and play against McEvoy's entire range in position.
I vote call too.. wow paid you have been doing some serious studyingumbup I dont like reraising with AQ and people still to act
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 02:04 PM
(#12)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,824
(Super-Moderator)
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Think about this though...... the last hand we were in (which McEvoy saw), we called and played a big A passively, even when we hit 2 pair with it.

If we call, then it can end up just like the last one... but... if we change things up a bit, we may be able to outplay McEvoy after the flop, as he could be reading us wrong. That would give us an advantage over him, along with position.

Although, if we raise, then Dave is set up in the hand to try and outplay us, with position over both. Same for the blinds... and if we only think about Tom and Dave, then we can get beat by the blinds easier too.

Makes for a very, very interesting situation, because either way could potentially be the correct way to play it.... or the absolute worst way to play it.

What do all of you think about this?
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 02:06 PM
(#13)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
As a side note, if we call it gives us an SPR of 6, if Dave calls along it will give us an SPR of 4 1/2, and if the lucky librarian calls along from the BB,(with great odds to do so) our SPR goes to 3 1/2
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 02:31 PM
(#14)
PaidInFull6's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 342
McEvoy is not the type of player to call a 3 bet oop, he is almost always 4 betting or folding. AhQh does not play well vs his 4 bet range either, I really don't want to get 4 bet without seeing a flop.

What kinds of hands would you expect McEvoy to call with oop?
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 02:38 PM
(#15)
pokerstar671's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,206
Im gunna 3x that raise. See what happens from there. How do these players play?

Last edited by pokerstar671; Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 02:42 PM..
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 02:53 PM
(#16)
PaidInFull6's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstar671 View Post
Im gunna 3x that raise. See what happens from there. How do these players play?
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...s-same-info%29
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 03:09 PM
(#17)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
After careful reveiw of our situation this is for sure either a call or a fold... Let's try to see a flop for the price of admission. CALL
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 03:12 PM
(#18)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstar671 View Post
Im gunna 3x that raise. See what happens from there. How do these players play?
In a vacume maybe. not here w/ the knowledge we have of our villains imo
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 03:23 PM
(#19)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Think about this though...... the last hand we were in (which McEvoy saw), we called and played a big A passively, even when we hit 2 pair with it.

If we call, then it can end up just like the last one... but... if we change things up a bit, we may be able to outplay McEvoy after the flop, as he could be reading us wrong. That would give us an advantage over him, along with position.

Although, if we raise, then Dave is set up in the hand to try and outplay us, with position over both. Same for the blinds... and if we only think about Tom and Dave, then we can get beat by the blinds easier too.

Makes for a very, very interesting situation, because either way could potentially be the correct way to play it.... or the absolute worst way to play it.

What do all of you think about this?
We know dave likes to flat IP with a wide range, and he won't 3bet light w/ the nit opening and us calling behind. If he does and open the betting back up for mcavoy then I think its an ez fold if mcavoy sticks around because like paid said he's not calling OOP to that raise and if dave raises and mcavoy caves, we'll have a tiny SPR and our descisions will be super easy. Though there may also be a fair amount of leveling going on in this hand ( or attempts there of) if we flat yet again its gonna make dave go hmmmmmmm My .02

Last edited by mtnestegg; Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 05:54 PM..
 
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Tue Aug 16, 2011, 06:02 PM
(#20)
77wopke77's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
BronzeStar
Question??

i am not that familiar with all the terms but what the hell is SPR?? i haveto translate moste of what u people are writing and it's getting more clear every time i look at the forum!! but i have to ask sometimes lol!!

and can i also make a question?? something i noticed i the former hand also!! i see a lot of reactions about McEvoy but only one realy about the 3 cumming actions behind u!!

IT'S only the first hand on the second day with only a good read on 1 player!!

i sure as hell want to see a flop before i put in more chips!!

raising McEvoy, followed by a reraise from 1 out a 3 after me!! i realy won't be happy knowing at least 1 is as stif as a wooden board
 

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