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LookOut when USA players are back!

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LookOut when USA players are back! - Wed Aug 24, 2011, 02:02 AM
(#1)
0HighTimes0's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 840
Just Thinking when USA player's back, W$ gone have to watch out (learning they done!, looking at posts etc they watching)
ALL BEST LUCK/SKILL ALL

Last edited by 0HighTimes0; Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 02:05 AM..
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 02:13 AM
(#2)
0HighTimes0's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 840
When i say WHEN, I dont konw whats happening in USA
BEEP Its birth place of poker
Whats beep happening in USA
all best
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 08:39 AM
(#3)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
In simple terms, the US Dept. of Justice charged the three major poker online sites with criminal activities, specifically, money laundrying. The DOJ closed the sites, then allowed them to reopen when the sites agreed to ban American players pending the outcome of the criminal trial.

Considering the speed of American courts, that can take a long time. On optomistic days, I say 3 - 5 years.
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 09:05 AM
(#4)
Crumblepie's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairn Destop View Post
In simple terms, the US Dept. of Justice charged the three major poker online sites with criminal activities, specifically, money laundrying. The DOJ closed the sites, then allowed them to reopen when the sites agreed to ban American players pending the outcome of the criminal trial.

Considering the speed of American courts, that can take a long time. On optomistic days, I say 3 - 5 years.

I am not sure that I understand the situation, are Americans allowed to play poker online or not?

There are still company's offering online poker to Americans is it not?

Are players intimidated into not playing by the DoJ?
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 09:41 AM
(#5)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
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It isn't the players that were intimidated. The DOJ closed the sites. The agreement allowed the sites to operate if they banned the Americans. It made good business sense for the big three, (PokerStars, Full Tilt, and Ultimate Poker), to comply with the DOJ.

As it stands right now, the American players cannot play cash games on PokerStars. Play money is allowed, and I've been very active on the 27-player play money sng.

American players can play for cash on some of the other online poker sites, but many believe that might be a temporary thing. If the criminality of the money laundrying charges are upheld, most people believe the DOJ will then move against the other online sites.

The general thinking of Americans is that the government wants its cut of the revenues through regulatory licensing and taxation, or there is a conspiracy to assist American sites gain sufficient membership to challenge oversease sites like PokerStars.
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 10:10 AM
(#6)
Crumblepie's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairn Destop View Post
It isn't the players that were intimidated. The DOJ closed the sites. The agreement allowed the sites to operate if they banned the Americans. It made good business sense for the big three, (PokerStars, Full Tilt, and Ultimate Poker), to comply with the DOJ.

As it stands right now, the American players cannot play cash games on PokerStars. Play money is allowed, and I've been very active on the 27-player play money sng.

American players can play for cash on some of the other online poker sites, but many believe that might be a temporary thing. If the criminality of the money laundrying charges are upheld, most people believe the DOJ will then move against the other online sites.

The general thinking of Americans is that the government wants its cut of the revenues through regulatory licensing and taxation, or there is a conspiracy to assist American sites gain sufficient membership to challenge oversease sites like PokerStars.
I take it that company's like Pokerstars and FTP did not pay taxes in America?
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 10:21 AM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
The DOJ did not close the sites, they don't have that kind of power. They blocked access to the .com websites. PokerStars game client was fully operational, and they quickly opened the .eu site when the .com name was seized. They voluntarily blocked US players from playing real money games almost immediately to comply with the DOJ's instructions in the hope of being eligible for licensing in a better future US climate. Full Tilt allowed US players to continue playing for at least 24 hours after the Black Friday hammer, but then voluntarily locked out US players from logging into real money games sometime on Saturday. UB still allowed "real money" play for US residents weeks beyond that... they may still, I haven't tried to log into them in a couple months. (I put "real money" in quotes because you can not cash out of UB, and it's fairly widely known now that UB has a pretty big financial deficit making it uncertain money will ever be cashed out, they're more likely to simply fold from what I've heard, so their "real money" play is more akin to monopoly money right now). There are some smaller sites/networks still allowing US players to play. The climate of that future right now is uncertain, but the DOJ can't just go "shut them down" if they feel like being cantankerous bastards (which they seem to feel like a lot), they have to bring charges. Remember the charges brought against the operators of the big 3 are related to banking issues. I asked live chat support on one of the small sites if they were concerned about what happened with Stars et all happening to them, and they replied not at all, they don't do business with US banks so they can not be in violation of any US banking laws.

Whether or not the big 3 were in violation of US banking laws remains to be seen. They clearly did not believe they were, I personally don't believe they were. But voluntarily blocking real money play from US players in light of the DOJ's actions makes very good business sense. If they continued it would be like thumbing their nose at the DOJ, which would eliminate any chance of licensing down the road (if they would be flip to any consideration of US law now, how could the US feel comfortable licensing them in the future?). Stars understands this, and they took the appropriate action immediately. Tilt is traditionally a bit slow on the uptake, but they eventually complied as well. UB doesn't care, likely because of their finanicial situation they don't expect to be operational long term anyway.
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 10:25 AM
(#8)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
no company based outside of the USA pay american taxes. terriffs for goods imported here maybe, but no taxes. Then they tax us for buying those goods lol
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 07:40 PM
(#9)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
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When it comes to American players currently, there really isn't any good option for online poker at the moment. Some of the US player accepting sites have even temporarily discontinued new registrations from the US. Some still accept new US players. All US playing accepting sites are extremely low traffic, terrible software, and are very sketchy and untrustworthy. The vast majority of US poker players simply are not playing online right now and atleast into the near future. We can play live poker, or we can literally move out of the country and continue playing on site like Pokerstars... but establishing residence in a foreign country is far from easy for most people.

It's a complicated issue that no doubt is much more than just taxing problems, but you can rest easy there won't be a large influx of American players into online poker again any time soon.

Also, when the USA first really got into online poker there was never before or since a higher abundance of fish and easy money. If there ever is a second poker boom for us it will be a good thing for your bankroll!
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 08:07 PM
(#10)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Can't get the link to work but pokerpages.com has an interesting article today on the possibility of on-line poker legislation making it's way into the Super Debt Committee discussions. Now the possibility of any agreement coming out of this committee on the entire scope of their debate is admittedly a dicey proposition to be sure,but the fact that the Dems are insisting that there is revenue included in any deficit reducing proposal and the Republicans insistence that there be as little (or any...) tax revenue in there as possible does mean that other ways of generating revenues are going to be considered. On-line poker fits that bill.

Remember,Prohibition ended during the Great Depression and that was 1000 times more controversial than any on-line poker legislation would be. And with the proliferation of both state and national lottery games I think it's safe to say that this country is pretty docile when it comes to gambling at this point. A "Hell if it keeps Uncle Sam outta MY pocket,go for it" attitude if you will.

Between the possibility of this being part of the Debt Committee's discussions and the Barton proposal in the House the government IS looking at this issue. I,for one,remain guardedly optimistic.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 08:18 PM..
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 08:09 PM
(#11)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
[url]www.pokerpages.com/poker-news/

COMES UP PAGE NOT FOUND



 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 08:22 PM
(#12)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockerguyAA View Post
Also, when the USA first really got into online poker there was never before or since a higher abundance of fish and easy money. If there ever is a second poker boom for us it will be a good thing for your bankroll!
You really think so ?

I've been playing online for about 5 years now and I can tell you it's never been easier than it is at the moment. Now obviously I've improved over the years, but I seem to have noticed quite a dramatic "improvement" since April. I don't think this is coincidence
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 08:35 PM
(#13)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemetdennis View Post
COMES UP PAGE NOT FOUND




Yeah I know. Just do a search with "on-line poker legislation" as the keywords and the "Poker Legislation--Super Debt Committee..." article should be the 2nd option,or so. I was actually looking for info on Barton's bill and found this as well.
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 08:42 PM
(#14)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman61 View Post
You really think so ?

I've been playing online for about 5 years now and I can tell you it's never been easier than it is at the moment. Now obviously I've improved over the years, but I seem to have noticed quite a dramatic "improvement" since April. I don't think this is coincidence
Well, I'm not aware of exactly how things have changed since Black Friday, but it would be hard for me to believe that the games have gotten as soft as they were 5 years ago. Regardless, that is good news and happy to hear it.
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 08:48 PM
(#15)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
idk about as soft as they were 5 years ago, I seriously doubt that, but everyone I know in my circle of peers who resides outside the US has said the same thing as Darkman, the games are much softer now than pre-black friday. Every country has their share of sharks and fish, but I think the US in general was a step ahead of the ROW in terms of regs. A lot less winning regs in the player pool = softer games.
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 08:51 PM
(#16)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
The only thing I could see is the casinos who will probably be operating the new rooms just blowing tons of advertising $ and we will see a huge new influx of fish.... how long they stay though... who knows
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 11:17 PM
(#17)
Widzywidzy^^'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 151
Yes ill be looking out for USA players when searching tables as they are easy targets. lol jk
 
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Thu Aug 25, 2011, 09:30 AM
(#18)
TARIQ06's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 380
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
Can't get the link to work but pokerpages.com has an interesting article today on the possibility of on-line poker legislation making it's way into the Super Debt Committee discussions. Now the possibility of any agreement coming out of this committee on the entire scope of their debate is admittedly a dicey proposition to be sure,but the fact that the Dems are insisting that there is revenue included in any deficit reducing proposal and the Republicans insistence that there be as little (or any...) tax revenue in there as possible does mean that other ways of generating revenues are going to be considered. On-line poker fits that bill.

Remember,Prohibition ended during the Great Depression and that was 1000 times more controversial than any on-line poker legislation would be. And with the proliferation of both state and national lottery games I think it's safe to say that this country is pretty docile when it comes to gambling at this point. A "Hell if it keeps Uncle Sam outta MY pocket,go for it" attitude if you will.

Between the possibility of this being part of the Debt Committee's discussions and the Barton proposal in the House the government IS looking at this issue. I,for one,remain guardedly optimistic.



with the way the us is going down hill, we have no choice but to allow ps back with tax accentives, both will make money, the usa is broke, i moving to london whenever i get a chance to by that vacation..carbon poker sucks..can't wait..
 
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Thu Aug 25, 2011, 09:34 AM
(#19)
ronh1967's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 376
i wish us players could be back now always liked playing against them because the ones i played were famous for 1thing underestimating there competion
 
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Thu Aug 25, 2011, 10:01 AM
(#20)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronh1967 View Post
i wish us players could be back now always liked playing against them because the ones i played were famous for 1thing underestimating there competion
lol, it sounds like you're serious. Truth is, this statement is true of a high % of poker players, across all nationalities.
 

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