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So where is the Skill

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So where is the Skill - Wed Aug 24, 2011, 03:33 AM
(#1)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
I thought the prem was gonna be a better standard of poker
The odd mind games
Raise vs raise
Bit of chat , talk a guy off a hand lol
How sadly mistaken I was
So next time your sat at the table and see that name
You know what to expect

PokerStars Game #66462562956: Tournament #422952762, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (125/250) - 2011/08/24 8:16:33 WET [2011/08/24 3:16:33 ET]
Table '422952762 9' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: rauhespiele (2210 in chips)
Seat 2: ROCKERS888 (1430 in chips)
Seat 3: spike8998 (1395 in chips)
Seat 4: ceaserea (1230 in chips)
Seat 5: BARRYDOGG378 (7040 in chips)
Seat 6: buxiboy (3950 in chips)
Seat 7: V.H. MAXX (1450 in chips)
Seat 8: xxAPCxx (3146 in chips)
Seat 9: windhaha2012 (1203 in chips)
rauhespiele: posts the ante 25
ROCKERS888: posts the ante 25
spike8998: posts the ante 25
ceaserea: posts the ante 25
BARRYDOGG378: posts the ante 25
buxiboy: posts the ante 25
V.H. MAXX: posts the ante 25
xxAPCxx: posts the ante 25
windhaha2012: posts the ante 25
ROCKERS888: posts small blind 125
spike8998: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to spike8998 [Ks Ah]
ceaserea: folds
BARRYDOGG378: folds
buxiboy: folds
V.H. MAXX: folds
xxAPCxx: folds
windhaha2012: folds
rauhespiele: folds
ROCKERS888: raises 1155 to 1405 and is all-in
spike8998: calls 1120 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (35) returned to ROCKERS888
*** FLOP *** [As 3d 6s]
*** TURN *** [As 3d 6s] [4c]
*** RIVER *** [As 3d 6s 4c] [4h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ROCKERS888: shows [Kc 4d] (three of a kind, Fours)
spike8998: shows [Ks Ah] (two pair, Aces and Fours)
ROCKERS888 collected 2965 from pot
spike8998 finished the tournament in 114th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2965 | Rake 0
Board [As 3d 6s 4c 4h]
Seat 1: rauhespiele (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ROCKERS888 (small blind) showed [Kc 4d] and won (2965) with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 3: spike8998 (big blind) showed [Ks Ah] and lost with two pair, Aces and Fours
Seat 4: ceaserea folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: BARRYDOGG378 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: buxiboy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: V.H. MAXX folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: xxAPCxx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: windhaha2012 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 03:51 AM
(#2)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
It's best not to post these just after they happen spike. I suspect that if you look at it again tomorrow even you may wonder what your point was
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 03:58 AM
(#3)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman61 View Post
It's best not to post these just after they happen spike. I suspect that if you look at it again tomorrow even you may wonder what your point was
Exactly what the title says , Skill
We can all sit at a table and shove with any 2 cards
No skill needed , just turn up an ship it
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 04:01 AM
(#4)
CorkiePoker's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 104
He was on steal, Spike, He got lucky. It happens. In a fast tourney, any shove with < 20 BB is not unusual. He had 5BB or so, he wanted you to fold. You had a hand, but got unlucky. It's the nature of this game. If it weren't for the negative point structure, we'd probably see more of this.
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 04:01 AM
(#5)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Everybody has folded to him in the SB. He has 5xBB remaining and holds a King. What are you suggesting? He should fold?
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 04:06 AM
(#6)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman61 View Post
Everybody has folded to him in the SB. He has 5xBB remaining and holds a King. What are you suggesting? He should fold?
Yes
I would
I wouldn't even call the big blind let alone shove it all in to leave myself 35 bits
Tourney life at stake I don't think so
But then my idea of card value must differ from the rest of the world
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 04:15 AM
(#7)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
I think you've become institutionalised spike. If the Premier League is getting played as a standard tournament rather than the way we used to play the old league, that's an insta shove
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 04:21 AM
(#8)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
I'm happy with my play
I got sucked out on the river by a hand that had a 5% chance of winning with the river to come
It's not the first time and certainly won't be the last
I will continue to play my premium hands strongly because in the long run they will win more times than they lose

Last edited by spike8998; Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 04:58 AM..
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 05:09 AM
(#9)
mcgameboy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by spike8998 View Post
Yes
I would
I wouldn't even call the big blind let alone shove it all in to leave myself 35 bits
Tourney life at stake I don't think so
But then my idea of card value must differ from the rest of the world
The card value isnt the issue spike mate. He is severely short stacked and he has only one opponent to shake off. If he has you down as a reasonably TAG player, then he is most likely thinking he can shove in this spot knowing that you cant/wont call without a big hand. But he could be doing this steal with ATC....from 23offsuit to AA. He probably doesnt even want you to call with a hand that he is beating (like QJ) in case you suck out. He wants your blind and the antes with no fuss.
 
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Of Course - Wed Aug 24, 2011, 05:21 AM
(#10)
Stakehorse75's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 865
BronzeStar
Spike, don't you realize by now that if you lost the hand, and didn't have a made hand, to Dm, it's not a bad beat. Like when I was just playing the open league, and I watched a guy ship it 6 times in a row, getting nothing to call with, and finally I get this hand.

PokerStars Game #66464551753: Tournament #422952905, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level I (20/40) - 2011/08/24 5:05:53 ET
Table '422952905 88' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: valerisan (2340 in chips)
Seat 2: Mikiwor (1480 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: siganara (1800 in chips)
Seat 4: dims077 (700 in chips)
Seat 5: Alexikos (1420 in chips)
Seat 6: fahmedbd (4780 in chips)
Seat 7: Stakehorse75 (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: Perec638 (1440 in chips)
Seat 9: Taasi23 (1460 in chips) is sitting out
Taasi23: posts small blind 20
valerisan: posts big blind 40
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Stakehorse75 [Qd Ah]
Mikiwor: folds
siganara: calls 40
dims077: folds
Alexikos: folds
fahmedbd: calls 40
Stakehorse75: raises 120 to 160
Perec638: folds
Taasi23: folds
valerisan: raises 2180 to 2340 and is all-in
Mikiwor has returned
siganara: folds
fahmedbd: folds
Stakehorse75: calls 1340 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (840) returned to valerisan
*** FLOP *** [7d 7h Tc]
*** TURN *** [7d 7h Tc] [Kc]
*** RIVER *** [7d 7h Tc Kc] [4d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
valerisan: shows [4h Th] (two pair, Tens and Sevens)
Stakehorse75: shows [Qd Ah] (a pair of Sevens)
valerisan collected 3100 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3100 | Rake 0
Board [7d 7h Tc Kc 4d]
Seat 1: valerisan (big blind) showed [4h Th] and won (3100) with two pair, Tens and Sevens
Seat 2: Mikiwor folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: siganara folded before Flop
Seat 4: dims077 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Alexikos folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: fahmedbd folded before Flop
Seat 7: Stakehorse75 showed [Qd Ah] and lost with a pair of Sevens
Seat 8: Perec638 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Taasi23 (small blind) folded before Flop


Of course it wasn't a bad beat, but I think spike was trying to show the level of skill.
Here, in the open league, it is poor, you basically wait until you have 4 or 5 BBs left, then push, otherwise, you sit and fold away your blinds...
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 06:02 AM
(#11)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Thanks S/Horse

"Of course it wasn't a bad beat, but I think spike was trying to show the level of skill."

At last someone who sees my point
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 07:31 AM
(#12)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Yeah. Okay. If you still can't see he made the right play, who am I to try and convince you otherwise
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 08:41 AM
(#13)
ronh1967's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 376
in that hand both people made the right play,just that this time the worst hand won nothing you can do its just the luck off the cards,
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 08:45 AM
(#14)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
Love ya' Spike..you know that..but this is an absolutely correct push imo.
Did he get lucky? Of course. But shove/fold ranges clearly dictate this as a shove w/ no action in front.
I think some of us are aware that we can get down to below even 1BB before we have to shove and still can make a nice comeback...did it myself more than a few times before Black Friday. But it isn't correct to do so.
Truthfully, imo, this guy should really be shoving atc here..it's just +EV ... that you will fold most of the time.

Hang in there bud, you got this.
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 12:58 PM
(#15)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
(Head Trainer)
LOLZ, I love it. Listen to Dman.

His shove is standard in this situation and 100% correct. NOT SHOVING would have demonstrated a lack of skill on his part. Shoving, whether he did it for the right or wrong reasons, was absolutely the correct play.
 
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Wed Aug 24, 2011, 01:02 PM
(#16)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by !!!111Dan View Post
Truthfully, imo, this guy should really be shoving atc here..it's just +EV ... that you will fold most of the time
Given that spike is playing wayyyyyyy too nitty in this spot, it's absolutely +EV for him to shove any 2. Having a king in his hand is a nice bonus.
 

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