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VNH Darkman

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VNH Darkman - Thu Sep 01, 2011, 02:52 PM
(#1)
KOingDonks's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 322

 
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Thu Sep 01, 2011, 03:36 PM
(#2)
Drywallman3's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 277
someone get 7772011 a tissue
 
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Thu Sep 01, 2011, 04:04 PM
(#3)
FLsnookman's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 565
Pretty standard, less than 10 bb looking to shove.
 
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Thu Sep 01, 2011, 04:10 PM
(#4)
r0ck.carver's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 201
nice hit D ....don't show vansquash u'll never hear the end of it lol
 
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Thu Sep 01, 2011, 07:03 PM
(#5)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
The man's got 8xBB and he min raises. He got precisely what he deserved
 
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Thu Sep 01, 2011, 10:45 PM
(#6)
CorkiePoker's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 104
I don't know if he got what he deserved, I do know he got what he wanted. He wanted you to shove. You shoved. He got unlucky. Oh well, these things happen (over and over and over again, they happen).

You should be concerned that you were manipulated into doing exactly what AA wanted you to do. The fact that you got lucky and won, is meaningless. You were exploited.

When these things happen to me, as long as the other player does what I wanted him to do, I consider it a victory. Pyrrhic, perhaps, but a victory nonetheless.
 
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Thu Sep 01, 2011, 10:55 PM
(#7)
mcrissinger's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,650
BronzeStar
He didn't get what he wanted. He wanted to win the pot no matter what. If he had shoved there, I still see someone calling him since he should have been shoving that short with anything semi-decent.

However, if the table had been tight up til that point, he might have scooped the pot without a fight. He should have shoved right away.
 
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Fri Sep 02, 2011, 07:41 AM
(#8)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorkiePoker View Post
I don't know if he got what he deserved, I do know he got what he wanted. He wanted you to shove. You shoved. He got unlucky. Oh well, these things happen (over and over and over again, they happen).

You should be concerned that you were manipulated into doing exactly what AA wanted you to do. The fact that you got lucky and won, is meaningless. You were exploited.

When these things happen to me, as long as the other player does what I wanted him to do, I consider it a victory. Pyrrhic, perhaps, but a victory nonetheless.
You should be concerned that you feel you can come to these conclusions without any knowledge of the table or the player in question. He had no idea what he wanted. He'd been making 4xBB raises and folding to 3Bets. Taking marginal hands to showdown (and losing) with air. And generally displaying a complete lack of understanding of what was going on. Now if he'd done what he should and shoved those 8xBB I'd probably have folded and he'd have taken the blinds and survived. But no, once again he took the "random" approach and paid the price.

Now if you still like his play and are a fan of slow (semi) playing Aces yourself, please come and play in these games. 27 man SNG's. Usually the $15 ones. I'm there most nights and I'll be waiting with a big welcome for you.
 
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Fri Sep 02, 2011, 10:22 AM
(#9)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman61 View Post
You should be concerned that you feel you can come to these conclusions without any knowledge of the table or the player in question. He had no idea what he wanted. He'd been making 4xBB raises and folding to 3Bets. Taking marginal hands to showdown (and losing) with air. And generally displaying a complete lack of understanding of what was going on. Now if he'd done what he should and shoved those 8xBB I'd probably have folded and he'd have taken the blinds and survived. But no, once again he took the "random" approach and paid the price.

Now if you still like his play and are a fan of slow (semi) playing Aces yourself, please come and play in these games. 27 man SNG's. Usually the $15 ones. I'm there most nights and I'll be waiting with a big welcome for you.
Hey Dman,

Not questionning your prowess in the 27 man SnGs, because we all know you're D'man [... or knowledge of previous plays], but I disagree with your analysis. I would be looking for the double up in this situation, not simply stealing the blinds... and therefore don't see much wrong with the min raise if it was a genuine attempt to entice someone [... namely you] to come over the top with a worse hand. You said yourself you would have probably folded if he'd done what he should have done and shoved... so it worked and he was in great shape [... until the flop].

Nothing wrong with getting lucky, but suggesting he got what he 'deserved' is somewhat masking the fact that you were a massive under dog... with only 1 in 5 chance of winning [pre-flop].

GL
 
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Fri Sep 02, 2011, 10:39 AM
(#10)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman61 View Post
The man's got 8xBB and he min raises. He got precisely what he deserved
Spot on Al
Min raising pre with just under 8xbb was suicide , insta shove with AA imo
Would you have folded to his all in raise ?
 
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Fri Sep 02, 2011, 05:01 PM
(#11)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigy237 View Post
Hey Dman,

Not questionning your prowess in the 27 man SnGs, because we all know you're D'man [... or knowledge of previous plays], but I disagree with your analysis. I would be looking for the double up in this situation, not simply stealing the blinds... and therefore don't see much wrong with the min raise if it was a genuine attempt to entice someone [... namely you] to come over the top with a worse hand. You said yourself you would have probably folded if he'd done what he should have done and shoved... so it worked and he was in great shape [... until the flop].

Nothing wrong with getting lucky, but suggesting he got what he 'deserved' is somewhat masking the fact that you were a massive under dog... with only 1 in 5 chance of winning [pre-flop].

GL
Well let's drop the specific discussion (I didn't even post the hand ) and approach it in more general terms. The next time you see someone play Aces in a less than aggressive manner, have a look at their stats. I do this immediately I see somebody play this way. And those that turn out to be winning players are as rare as lottery winners. Too many people get too smart for their own good at the level we play. We're not playing $10k buy ins and trying to outwit the best in the world. Do the straightforward thing in our pocket money games and you will fare far better than you will by trying to be a smarty pants. Trust me
 
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Fri Sep 02, 2011, 06:45 PM
(#12)
FLsnookman's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 565
I am kinda suprised by the comments here. IMHO in a tourny when you get down to 15 BBs you better be looking to shove pretty quick. Any pair, any 2 suited and especially suited connectors will do. Aside from aces or kings J10 suited is a great hand to shove as it plays well after the flop. Again, I am nowhere near Darkmans level but ill say it again, I believe this is a standard shove in his spot. Good luck and see you out there.
 
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Fri Sep 02, 2011, 06:57 PM
(#13)
dale442's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman61 View Post
Well let's drop the specific discussion (I didn't even post the hand ) and approach it in more general terms. The next time you see someone play Aces in a less than aggressive manner, have a look at their stats. I do this immediately I see somebody play this way. And those that turn out to be winning players are as rare as lottery winners. Too many people get too smart for their own good at the level we play. We're not playing $10k buy ins and trying to outwit the best in the world. Do the straightforward thing in our pocket money games and you will fare far better than you will by trying to be a smarty pants. Trust me

I keep asking myself one thing in regards to this. First off, I think the shove is fine. Not too much choice there.

The question I ask myself...

When the cards are turned up, what thought is in ones head?

First one...Oh crap (or something like that) BUT, immediately followed by " I have the type of hand to crack those aces"

And yes, with some luck from the gods, it happened.

Dale
 
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Fri Sep 02, 2011, 07:01 PM
(#14)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dale442 View Post
I keep asking myself one thing in regards to this. First off, I think the shove is fine. Not too much choice there.

The question I ask myself...

When the cards are turned up, what thought is in ones head?

First one...Oh crap (or something like that) BUT, immediately followed by " I have the type of hand to crack those aces"

And yes, with some luck from the gods, it happened.

Dale
I'M NOT SURE IT WAS OH CRAP



 
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Fri Sep 02, 2011, 07:13 PM
(#15)
Drywallman3's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman61 View Post
Well let's drop the specific discussion (I didn't even post the hand ) and approach it in more general terms. The next time you see someone play Aces in a less than aggressive manner, have a look at their stats. I do this immediately I see somebody play this way. And those that turn out to be winning players are as rare as lottery winners. Too many people get too smart for their own good at the level we play. We're not playing $10k buy ins and trying to outwit the best in the world. Do the straightforward thing in our pocket money games and you will fare far better than you will by trying to be a smarty pants. Trust me

Believe it or not but after reading your post, this makes a lot of sense in things i have been doing lately and why my results have been the way they have. I def will keep this in mind for the near future. Thanks D-Man
 
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Fri Sep 02, 2011, 07:21 PM
(#16)
dale442's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemetdennis View Post
I'M NOT SURE IT WAS OH CRAP



Well, something like that.

Dale
 

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