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I'm repeating myself, but: what of this shove?

I'm repeating myself, but: what of this shove? - Thu Sep 01, 2011, 04:03 PM
NL_Niels's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 16

Final table of the 990 player 0,02 ct buy-in hyper sit 'n go. Every other hand someone shoves, since the blinds are big enough to have practically everyone playing with a <10BB stack. Just wondering what you guys think of this spot... decent enough shove or bad play?

The guy who wins this pot actually went on to lose heads up.. he's not a very good heads up player

All in all I'm pretty happy finishing fourth. I used to suck at these hypers, but am getting the hang of them now.
Thu Sep 01, 2011, 05:36 PM
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
I was going to say horrible... then I saw it was a hyper turbo... so not as bad, people shove real wide,and call even wider. It is still fairly loose, you have a good drawing hand, but you know if called you have to hit because every A rag will call
Thu Sep 01, 2011, 06:15 PM
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
Pluses of your play:

1) Versus 1 limper, you usually have a reasonable chance to get someone who is not willing to RAISE a given hand to fold with a shove.

2) You are probably RACING the most common limp in hands that may call your jam (small to mid pp) with your QTo.

3) You are short enough to think picking up the blinds/antes and that 1 limp is very good for you, and a shove is your only real option on this depth of money...

Minuses of your play:

1) Stacks are too short for ANYONE to "like" putting chips into the pot then folding; that dries up a lot of the benefits of point 1 above.

2) "Bad" opponents may not recognize the lack of limp in ability on these stack sizes. This would mean they may limp KQ/KJ/KT/QJ, and then be un-able to fold those hands. This saps a lot of the value in point 2 above.

3) The chip distribution, plus the fact you are at the final table, RAISES the "power" of relative chip stack sizes in its influence on your thinking. Since NO ONE is above 10BB in a hyper turbo structure, ANYONE is at risk for a bust out with a single "mistake". This might lead you to want to think about lowering your readiness to jam without first in vig in order to (possibly) give at least 1 or 2 others the chance to make a mistake before you stand.


This REALLY is a hand which demands a lot of info to steer a decision in one direction or the other (Jam or Fold).

How "fold-y" was the table dynamic after limps?
How wide was the limp range of the BTN?
How wide was the call range of the BB?

I'll be honest, I gotta say that I LIKE the fact you jammed if you were going to play here at all...

First, you are exercising maximum fold equity; even this short it is possible the BTN is limping lite.

Next, If you limp/fold here, yes you'll still be "alive", but at that point any of your opponents would still have 100k if they doubled you later on.

That fact alone might encourage them to looser calls against you, thus forcing you into more and more card dependance for you later shoves.

Add in the fact a limp/fold leaves you only 2 more orbits at a 4 handed table, and you really do NOT have time to be card dependant in the least.

I'll continue honesty and say that I'm not certain that you have ENOUGH FE on this depth of money in a hyper turbo to want to "go" on a QTo.

I also cannot say for sure that hand is TOO WEAK to go, but it seems to me that you may have either seen one of these 2 stacks being severely HURT by you folding (thus greatly increasing your chance to move up at least 1 pay spot), or you have have picked up a better first in vig spot (and hand) to make your stand.

Your steal ability was too small due to stack sizes (in my opinion) to really "like" going in this spot very much, and as long as your opponents are quite likely to make a mistake BEFORE you have to stand, you might have cost yourself 1 or 2 pay spots.

So all in all, this is one of those types of hands that you cannot be FAULTED for what you did...
...But in retrospect you MAY see a potential for differing options.

It is good to be AWARE of different options, and the thoughts which may back up those other options, so that in a similar situation you might weigh additional factors and possibly see more "clarity" in a specific direction for your future play.

So there was no real "right-ness" nor "wrong-ness" in your particular decision, but NEXT TIME there may be something which might tell you to act differently.

I'd suggest only that you be open to that possibility.

Last edited by JDean; Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 06:18 PM..

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