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Hand analysis - Fri Sep 02, 2011, 03:04 AM
(#1)
geeboy30's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 1
Hello All

This is my first post on any poker thread. I have not been playing that long but am reading a few books and trying to improve. The question is,

Could I have played this hand any better?

ATo in the small blind, raised it 4x and the big blind called. Flop came nothing so put in a continuation bet, BB called. Turn came Ace but also gave two hearts and two clubs so put in another bet, BB called. River was a 2, gave 3 hearts on the board so fired in another bet and BB called.
BB had AJ and won with his J kicker.

Did I make any mistakes here? Did the BB make any mistakes? Was it just one of those hands?

PokerStars Game #66871431338: Tournament #436010584, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level V (30/60) - 2011/09/01 21:24:14 WET [2011/09/01 16:24:14 ET]
Table '436010584 22' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Bruno_Pera (1275 in chips)
Seat 2: *guerillaz* (3807 in chips)
Seat 3: proalexxx (2550 in chips)
Seat 4: gonatt7 (2800 in chips)
Seat 5: BobReilly (3270 in chips)
Seat 6: RRagazzo (2810 in chips)
Seat 7: J.Jiménez (2970 in chips)
Seat 8: geeboy30 (6108 in chips)
Seat 9: Snow in June (6465 in chips)
geeboy30: posts small blind 30
Snow in June: posts big blind 60
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to geeboy30 [As Td]
Bruno_Pera: folds
*guerillaz*: folds
proalexxx: folds
gonatt7: folds
BobReilly: folds
RRagazzo: folds
J.Jiménez: folds
geeboy30: raises 192 to 252
Snow in June: calls 192
*** FLOP *** [6c 7c 4h]
geeboy30: bets 262
Snow in June: calls 262
*** TURN *** [6c 7c 4h] [Ah]
geeboy30: bets 534
Snow in June: calls 534
*** RIVER *** [6c 7c 4h Ah] [2h]
geeboy30: bets 1551
Snow in June: calls 1551
*** SHOW DOWN ***
geeboy30: shows [As Td] (a pair of Aces)
Snow in June: shows [Ad Jc] (a pair of Aces - Jack kicker)
Snow in June collected 5198 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5198 | Rake 0
Board [6c 7c 4h Ah 2h]
Seat 1: Bruno_Pera folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: *guerillaz* folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: proalexxx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: gonatt7 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: BobReilly folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: RRagazzo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: J.Jiménez (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: geeboy30 (small blind) showed [As Td] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 9: Snow in June (big blind) showed [Ad Jc] and won (5198) with a pair of Aces

Two hands later I get AT again and this is the hand

PokerStars Game #66871622610: Tournament #436010584, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (40/80) - 2011/09/01 21:27:33 WET [2011/09/01 16:27:33 ET]
Table '436010584 22' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Bruno_Pera (1215 in chips)
Seat 2: *guerillaz* (4389 in chips)
Seat 3: proalexxx (2550 in chips)
Seat 4: gonatt7 (2800 in chips)
Seat 5: BobReilly (3270 in chips)
Seat 6: RRagazzo (2810 in chips)
Seat 7: J.Jiménez (2970 in chips)
Seat 8: geeboy30 (3017 in chips)
Seat 9: Snow in June (9034 in chips)
Bruno_Pera: posts small blind 40
*guerillaz*: posts big blind 80
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to geeboy30 [As Td]
proalexxx: folds
gonatt7: folds
BobReilly: folds
RRagazzo: folds
J.Jiménez: folds
geeboy30: raises 176 to 256
Snow in June: calls 256
Bruno_Pera: folds
*guerillaz*: calls 176
*** FLOP *** [Ac 5h 5s]
*guerillaz*: checks
geeboy30: bets 420
Snow in June: calls 420
*guerillaz*: calls 420
*** TURN *** [Ac 5h 5s] [Kc]
*guerillaz*: checks
geeboy30: bets 2341 and is all-in
Snow in June: folds
*guerillaz*: calls 2341
*** RIVER *** [Ac 5h 5s Kc] [7h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
*guerillaz*: shows [2h 5c] (three of a kind, Fives)
geeboy30: shows [As Td] (two pair, Aces and Fives)
*guerillaz* collected 6750 from pot
geeboy30 finished the tournament in 1692nd place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6750 | Rake 0
Board [Ac 5h 5s Kc 7h]
Seat 1: Bruno_Pera (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: *guerillaz* (big blind) showed [2h 5c] and won (6750) with three of a kind, Fives
Seat 3: proalexxx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: gonatt7 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: BobReilly folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: RRagazzo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: J.Jiménez folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: geeboy30 showed [As Td] and lost with two pair, Aces and Fives
Seat 9: Snow in June (button) folded on the Turn

I probably play this hand badly as I was on tilt over the previous hand but the BB calling with 25?????. Anyway I lost my chips and my tourney was over.

AT seems to be my nemesis hand. I have no confidence playing it at all. I will generally call early and mid and raise late with it in an unopened pot and get into multiway pots as well. Should I tighten up and just ditch AT?

Any comments would be great

Cheers
 
Old
Default
Fri Sep 02, 2011, 05:09 PM
(#2)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Hand #1:

Pre-flop, ATo is good enough to raise into a random hand held by the BB.
You will either get a fold from a normal call range, or your hand will tend to be better than a good protion of a CALL normal call range.

You sizing of your raise troubles me a bit though...

Was making it 4.25BB to go a "standard" raise for you?

If so, then no problem.
While AT may not "want" a larger pot this sort of raise sizing gives (due to the fact it can lead to kicker issues), maintaining a standard open raise sizing disguises the true strength of your holding.

If not, then you may have thrown off patterns in your betting which could lead to an aware opponent being keen on trying to exploit you.

Consider...

If you had chosen a 3BB raise sizing ("large" still, even under newer play patterns, but far more "typical"), the pot prgression would have been...

6BB pre flop, not 8.5BB

Your 52% pot bet on the flop would then make it 12.25BB when called, not 17.3BB.

Your 52% pot bet on the turn would then take the pot to 25BB when called, not 35.3BB.

So "adding" that 1.25BB pre-flop has roughly put you into a spot where if you MUST fold the river, you are losing roughly 5.25BB MORE than you would be had you raised less. Sure, on this depth of money it is not a MASSIVE part of your 101BB stack, but it is also not an amount you'd want to fold away very often either.

There MAY be "reasons" for this, but since you do not state any condition which may have led you to choose this larger pre-flop raise sizing, I have to say I'd prefer a smaller, and more "standard" pre-flop sizing.


Continuing...

Your agression on the flop is a pretty standard thing to do, and your sizing of your C-Bet was really pretty good (52% pot).
The PROBLEM you face is that call....what does it mean?

Is he smooth calling you pre on a "monster" hand because oyu over raised and bloated the pot a bit?
Is he flat calling because he wants you to "slow down" your betting so he can fire a float bluff?
Is he on a draw of some sort?

The fact is, your flop bet is fine: the chance the villain picked up a little bit of the flop, not enough to call a half pot bet, or is on just a draw and again is un-willing to call, is really too great for you to NOT want to C-BET quite frequently (this is for a STANDARD Villain; you gave no reads).

I cannot say your turn bet, after hitting your Ace, is a BAD thing either. You bet right around half pot (52% pot again, good), and by leading with some value you've prevented giving a free card to the potential draws here. The thing I would say though is this:

When Villain CALLS that turn bet, what do you think he can call you with that you are AHEAD OF?

Is he so weak a chaser that he will call a standard bet with just a draw?
Is he so weak that he would not recognize that YOU might have raised with an A, then C-Bet a miss?

The fact is, spiking your Ace gives your hand some value, but in the face of 2 calls of standard bets by you, you really do not have ENOUGH value to lead the river.

On the river, un-filled draws cannot call any bet from you, so you get no value from a river bet...
Hands like 7's would have seen you fire 3 times, and MUST strongly consider folding, so you'd get no value from a river bet...
Even hands like 88/99/TT must strongly consider folding after your 3rd barrel, so you;d get no value from a river bet...

About the only things which will call you are better hands, so why lead?

This ties back into your slightly larger than normal pre-flop raise sizing as well...

If you are "worried" a check now will open the door for a LARGE bet by the villain, one you;d find hard to call, then way raise more pre-flop and make it more likely only BETTER hands will call, and worse hands will fold...right?


Hand #2:

While you have lost about half your chips, you are still on a good working stack size of 37BB.

Again, ATo is a good hand to raise from the cut off spot.

This time you make a stadard raise, making it 3.2BB to go.

The problem is again though, are you throwing off "patterns" in your pre-flop open raise sizing?
I'd strongly suggest you go back thru this tourney Hand History, and list ALL your pre-flop open raises to check that...

On the A55 flop, when the BB caller checks to you, I see nothing wrong with your lead bet of 420.
While I normally prefer to bet MORE than half pot as a C-Bet in a multi-way pot (if more coordinated), betting much more than what you did here is probably sticking you to the pot quite hard. The lack of real draw shots beign there agaisnt you makes your bet just fine.

When BOTH villains call you though, you really may want your ears to prick up and take notice...

In the prior hand it was your over agression, and failure to recognize that calls MAY mean strength which largely led you to losing more than you might have "had to" in that pot. Aware opponents will generally try to exploit over agression with WIDER pot entries agaisnt you, and by CALLING MORE to draw. They do this because the overly agressive opponent tends to give good IMPLIED odds to these sorts of "shots" taken by Villains. If they may take shots at you, in hopes you stack off, that means boards like A55 are going to be MORE worrisome for you than they would normally be...see?

Still, please note: the greater worry is not enough to keep you from betting the flop.
But when BOTH of the Villains call, and one of those villains was in the BB getting better than 3 to 1 to call your raise, you really need to STOP and think a minute before betting more...

1) You have 22% of your stack in the pot after the flop bet.
Any further bet by you will certainly commit you.
Do you have ENOUGH in your hand to stack off in the face of 2 calelrs of your flop bet?

2) How much REAL improvement was that K for you?
Well, it did add kicker protection for you...now you are chopping with AJ/AQ.
Is your image enough to rep the fact you might have hit that K for a bigger 2 pair, thus bluffing hands like Ax off their share of the pot?

All in all, I have to say that if you decide to do ANYTHING but check/fold the turn (or call a very TINY bet at most), you are better served by the jam you made.
The thing for you to mull on for yourself is whether or not you are confident in your skill level versus the field to be able to fold and continue play on 29BB.

Me, I probably look at 29BB as a weakened stack, but since the levels have JUST gone up, I am far from crippled with almost a full leel at the 40/80 blinds to re-build.
I do not think this spot is one where I'm getting called by worse when I jam often enough, and the 2 callers of my flop bet raises the spectre of a 5 JUST enough, for me to probably be willing to fold and keep 29BB.

If I were on 10 to 15BB after my flop bet, I'm doing exactly what you do, but 29BB...a bit too much for me to want to stack off...

Last edited by JDean; Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 04:17 AM..
 
Old
Default
Fri Sep 02, 2011, 06:36 PM
(#3)
FLsnookman's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 565
Another great post JD. IMHO if a "good" player smooth calls your cbet that means they have a monster or a great draw at the nuts. A good idea might be to note that this player called with thier AJ and use it against them next time. Again, IMHO I like to call raises with off hands (2/3,2/5 suited) because if I hit I will rail the raiser or double up. Calling a raise with ace whatever means if you hit you can still be behind. Also if you dont hit you can get away from the hand easier( not chasing with the 2/3 like you might with an ace). Money saved is money earned. Again, I am nowhere as well versed in either poker or math as JD is so take this with a grain of salt. Good luck and see you out there.
 

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