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What am I to do here?

 
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What am I to do here? - Tue Sep 06, 2011, 09:54 AM
(#1)
Crumblepie's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 204
It's the hand I bust out with.

I tried using the handreplayer, but it seems I need to go back to school I suppose, because I do not have a clue how to work it.

PokerStars Game #67098814937: Tournament #436256641, $0.50+$0.05 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXI (3500/7000) - 2011/09/06 15:40:54 CET [2011/09/06 9:40:54 ET]
Table '436256641 121' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: .TePene. (276876 in chips)
Seat 2: Crumblepie (119244 in chips)
Seat 3: ivanvb68 (139624 in chips)
Seat 4: V-MAN550 (493438 in chips)
Seat 5: dvo1981 (155844 in chips)
Seat 6: elcsor (590642 in chips)
Seat 7: Marcokira (250960 in chips)
Seat 8: Kompolka (74660 in chips)
.TePene.: posts the ante 700
Crumblepie: posts the ante 700
ivanvb68: posts the ante 700
V-MAN550: posts the ante 700
dvo1981: posts the ante 700
elcsor: posts the ante 700
Marcokira: posts the ante 700
Kompolka: posts the ante 700
elcsor: posts small blind 3500
Marcokira: posts big blind 7000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Crumblepie [Qc Ad]
Kompolka: folds
.TePene.: folds
Crumblepie: raises 14000 to 21000
ivanvb68: folds
V-MAN550: folds
dvo1981: folds
elcsor: folds
Marcokira: calls 14000
*** FLOP *** [2c 7c Qs]
Marcokira: checks
Crumblepie: bets 35000
Marcokira: raises 35000 to 70000
Crumblepie: raises 27544 to 97544 and is all-in
Marcokira: calls 27544
*** TURN *** [2c 7c Qs] [7d]
*** RIVER *** [2c 7c Qs 7d] [Js]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Marcokira: shows [2d 7h] (a full house, Sevens full of Deuces)
Crumblepie: shows [Qc Ad] (two pair, Queens and Sevens)
Marcokira collected 246188 from pot
Crumblepie finished the tournament in 25th place and received $2.49.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 246188 | Rake 0
Board [2c 7c Qs 7d Js]
Seat 1: .TePene. folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Crumblepie showed [Qc Ad] and lost with two pair, Queens and Sevens
Seat 3: ivanvb68 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: V-MAN550 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: dvo1981 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: elcsor (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: Marcokira (big blind) showed [2d 7h] and won (246188) with a full house, Sevens full of Deuces
Seat 8: Kompolka folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 10:40 AM
(#2)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,476
(Head Trainer)
With 17 bb's I'm not a big fan of opening 3x without reads (and you've given no reads on the table at all). It's 18% of your stack. I'd like a min-raise or open jam better personally.

Post flop, easy commitment... folding at any point after the flop would be a huge mistake.

Run better?
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 11:27 AM
(#3)
Crumblepie's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
With 17 bb's I'm not a big fan of opening 3x without reads (and you've given no reads on the table at all). It's 18% of your stack. I'd like a min-raise or open jam better personally.

Post flop, easy commitment... folding at any point after the flop would be a huge mistake.

Run better?

Run better, yeah, that would do the trick.

I think it was the first hand that I played in over 3 hours, As it usually works i got some chips in the first hour and then got what seems like an endless stream of 62o, 72o, 94o, etc...

And yes, I should have shoved pre-flop, but looking back it wouldnt have made a difference I think, those big stacks called everything with anything.
Maybe I should stop waiting for a hand and play 72o like those guy's do.

If it wasnt for bad luck i would not have any luck at all, sad but true.

Last edited by Crumblepie; Tue Sep 06, 2011 at 11:41 AM..
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 11:40 AM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,476
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumblepie View Post
Maybe I should stop waiting for a hand and play 72o like those guy's do
Try it for a month, let us know how it works out for you. I'm not kidding. It's good medicine for anyone suffering from the "junk always wins" fantasy.
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 11:57 AM
(#5)
Crumblepie's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Try it for a month, let us know how it works out for you. I'm not kidding. It's good medicine for anyone suffering from the "junk always wins" fantasy.



What about the "junk always wins from me" fantasy?

Because that one looks very real from my point of view.
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 12:53 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,476
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumblepie View Post


What about the "junk always wins from me" fantasy?

Because that one looks very real from my point of view.
Your mind deceives you, it doesn't.

My advice is to choose more pleasant fantasies.
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 01:26 PM
(#7)
ChiefSuspect's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
With 17 bb's I'm not a big fan of opening 3x without reads (and you've given no reads on the table at all). It's 18% of your stack. I'd like a min-raise or open jam better personally.
Hi there. I respect your analysis Langolier. But I could picture myself doing exactly what Crumble did pre-flop.

I just want to learn this better for myself. What level of stack would he need to have had to make a 3x raise?

OR can you give me some very general guidelines as to when you start thinking about jamming vs raising.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 02:57 PM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,476
(Head Trainer)
Well I generally only open 3x in the very earliest stages when the money is deep, if at all. My standard open runs between 2.-2.5x.

Generally with less than 20 bb's raise/folding is a leak, so I try to avoid putting myself in that spot. Open jamming AQ with 17 bb's is tricky as it's enough of a stack that most players won't call light so when we do run into a calling hand we'll be an equity dog to that range... but the amount of fold equity we're leveraging (how often we'll win the blinds/antes uncontested) makes it ok. If they call looser, we win without a fight less often BUT have better hand equity vs. wider ranges for a potential double up.

Given the OP's read provided later in the thread, that the big stacks were calling loose even for 17 bb's, I would definitely open jam here for value. We'll have decent equity for a double up vs. wide calling ranges, and don't have to play post flop in a spot where we'll miss the flop 2/3rds of the time (at least we can't make any mistakes later in the hand when we shove pre LOL).

Does that help?
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 03:24 PM
(#9)
ChiefSuspect's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 2
Yes, that's great. Thank you very much.
 
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Wed Sep 07, 2011, 05:35 PM
(#10)
Crumblepie's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Well I generally only open 3x in the very earliest stages when the money is deep, if at all. My standard open runs between 2.-2.5x.

...
Can I ask you what your thinking is behind the 2.-2.5x opening in the later stages of a MTT?
 
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Wed Sep 07, 2011, 10:19 PM
(#11)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
The 2.2 to 2.5BB raises will tend to work as well as larger raise sizes (3 to 4BB) in folding out hands you'd want to fold (such as 22/33/44/55 when you hold AK) in the late stages when the average chip stack is not nearly as deep as early on. They also allow greater freedom of post flop action to middle sized stacks who would otherwise face un-warranted committment decisions earlier with larger sizing choices.

If you happen to be a late stage big stack, you can also bring more frequent pressure on opponents with the smaller raise sizes. Those amounts are less costly to you to you if you must fold, as well as not as lucrative for opponents to contest strongly with more frequent re-steal attempts.

Last edited by JDean; Wed Sep 07, 2011 at 10:22 PM..
 

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