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PSO Staff/Admin - Will all Sept results be scrubbed and both leagues restarted?

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PSO Staff/Admin - Will all Sept results be scrubbed and both leagues restarted? - Tue Sep 06, 2011, 12:13 PM
(#1)
annie_22at90's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 864
Hi Staff/Admin,

As there hasn't been any official word on how the problems of the September leagues will be resolved, I thought I'd ask the question and add my 2 cents.

Whatever the executive decision is, I think it would be best to inform the members ASAP so we all know where we stand.

  1. For the PL, results are tainted - players who should not have been competing did and some of those who were eligible missed out on competitive opportunities due to receiving tickets well past the start of the month.
  2. For the OL, players who received PL tickets in error missed out on competitive opportunities as they thought they had been promoted to the PL.

From my perspective, the fair thing to do is to scratch this month's results, reset all scores, double-check who belongs where, notify them of the league they're competing in and pick a date when the leagues will actually start again.

For those who may wonder but can't see my results for the PL as I'm not listed, I've had 4 fairly early exits, 2 middle of the pack and 1 probably small positive gain. I'd estimate I'm in the bottom third of the league with about 1460 pts.

Will resetting the scores help me? Not if I continue to donk myself out of competition.

I'm just stating my opinion as to what I see as a fair resolution of this month's difficulties and this wouldn't change even if I were ranked 1st with a 200 pt lead.

Okay - pile on.
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 02:05 PM
(#2)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_22at90 View Post
Hi Staff/Admin,

Whatever the executive decision is, I think it would be best to inform the members ASAP so we all know where we stand.



  1. For the PL, results are tainted - players who should not have been competing did and some of those who were eligible missed out on competitive opportunities due to receiving tickets well past the start of the month.
  2. For the OL, players who received PL tickets in error missed out on competitive opportunities as they thought they had been promoted to the PL.

From my perspective, the fair thing to do is to scratch this month's results, reset all scores, double-check who belongs where, notify them of the league they're competing in and pick a date when the leagues will actually start again.



For those who may wonder but can't see my results for the PL as I'm not listed, I've had 4 fairly early exits, 2 middle of the pack and 1 probably small positive gain. I'd estimate I'm in the bottom third of the league with about 1460 pts.

Will resetting the scores help me? Not if I continue to donk myself out of competition.

I'm just stating my opinion as to what I see as a fair resolution of this month's difficulties and this wouldn't change even if I were ranked 1st with a 200 pt lead.



Okay - pile on.
I sympathise with all the people who have been affected, however.

Will resetting the scores help you? - absolutely - you will have more points than now! However you play in future will not affect that.

Your opinion wouldn't change if you were 1st? I would love to believe that. I planned my weekend around the Premier tournaments and was lucky enough to have a good run and make the higher spots. I may not be there come the end of the month but obviously I want to keep those points.

You will not get a consensus on this reset issue as most who have gained points will want to keep them and most who have had a bad start spell will want the reset.

Possible solutions:

1) Limit the number of premier tournaments per player for the month to a lowish number of around 30 so that everyone has the chance to catch up and play the same maximum number of tournaments.

2) if a reset has to be done split the months prize pool into two pro-rata prize pools, one for the period before reset and one after (say 5/27ths and 22/27ths) and pay out on standings at reset point and then standings to end of month.

I suspect both of these would be technically difficult at this point. Neither is satisfactory but they are all I can come up with at the moment. In the end I think PSO have to just make a decision and we all have to live by it. Probably the easiest is just to remove the 'non qualifiers', recalculate points for tourneys they played in (with them removed), make sure all legitimate qualifiers now have their tickets and just let things run on. There are still around 90 tourneys to get your game on.

Good luck all.

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan

Last edited by EdinFreeMan; Tue Sep 06, 2011 at 08:36 PM..
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 02:53 PM
(#3)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,226
BronzeStar
I'm surprised at you annie
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 04:30 PM
(#4)
JokerAce68's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 315
Hi Annie i think what you are saying about starting again is right,if the tickets were distributed correctly in the first place everyone would of started on equal points,but now you have people who got there tickets late for the prem so missed out you have people who have played in the prem who recieved tickets in error who are now going in open 500+ behind the leader with really not alot of chance of catching them. so for everyone to start with 1500 i think would be fair.
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 05:32 PM
(#5)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Of course those individuals who have potentially lost out here through no fault of their own will want a reset and I do sympathise, but to reset would mean the majority who were given the correct ticket at the correct time and played several tournaments in good faith would now get their results, (be they good or bad), wiped out. That would only increase the overall unfairness. The players who have played well (or were lucky) against mostly correctly allocated opponents would be penalised and those who played badly (or were unlucky) would gain. If you take a utilitarian view of the greatest good for the greatest number a reset is far too simplistic and will just cause even more problems for even more people. It will never be possible to please all once this type of error has been made, and a potential solution for some will be a travesty to others.

I have no real idea of the numbers involved but I am guessing that the vast majority of players who played the first few days premier league tournaments were correctly allocated tickets and of those who got their correct tickets late they probably did not get them all at the same time. That was why I suggested above capping the number of tournaments for the month. (This idea had already been discussed for other reasons during the debate on generally improving the Premier League.)

It would be nice if PSO Staff could give more information on the extent of the absolute and % numbers that were directly affected and the specific cause of this problem. I suspect it is a small percentage and that most of us were only indirectly affected.

As far as I am concerned a reset would just open another can of worms. If that is even being considered they should perhaps suspend all PSO tournaments until the decision is made as we are seemingly playing blind.

They do seem to be removing the players wrongly given tickets and recalculating points from the earlier tournaments so maybe these decisions have already been made.

Good luck all

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 07:10 PM
(#6)
JokerAce68's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 315
And remember, even if you don't do well in the league this month, everyone starts the next month with the same 1,500 points, so it's anyone's game to win. this is a quote taken from the pso about their leagues. but thats not the case here is it also the money that people spent to get their vpps and for what no reward at all. so those people who have been bumped back to the open league are fighting a losing battle straight away. also i expect the people who have been wronged this month will be dubious about spending their hard earned cash to get their vpps for next month incase they are wronged again. i understand that you are in a high position in the prem and you dont want to lose your position but if the right people were in there as well you might not even be there or the people who did not get there prem tickets in time might have finished on the ft but we dont know what would of happened so in my opinion thats why i think its a good idea to start afresh. edinfreeman you was one of the people who wrote on my post that my ticket was more than likely valid along with some others so i as well set my alarm clock to get up and play the 1st tourny in which i finished 70th also i played 4 more which i didnt do to badly in. well ive said what i wanted to say i just hope that pso come to the right decision.
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 07:34 PM
(#7)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
WELL WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO
AS EDIN SAID NOTHING THAT THEY DO WILL MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY

YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT THE FIRST 500 POINTS ARE THE EASY ONES
SO HAVE YOU BEEN PLAYING THE OPEN AFTER YOU LOST YOUR TIC. ??

DID YOU SPEND MONEY TO GET YOUR VPP'S ?? IF YOU DID THEN YOU ARE NOT DOING IT RIGHT YOU SHOULD BE MAKING OR BREAKING EVEN TO GET YOUR VPP'S

YOU KEEP BRING UP YOUR OTHER THREAD SO IF PEOPLE HAD SAID YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE A TIC. WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE ??


 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 08:06 PM
(#8)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Hi JokerAce

I did respond to your forum query suggesting the ticket was probably good. I'm sorry I didn't think to say cover yourself by playing both Open and Premier - I'm also sorry it turned out badly for you and others like UltramanAK who was in a top 20 position before he got bumped.

I said somewhere it is impossible for a player who finishes close but outside the guaranteed qualifying positions (top 800Premier / 500Open / 200Premier Qualifiers having made 20+VPPs) to know whether or not they are actually due a ticket, as nobody knows how many of the players above them have the qualifying VPPs for the next months ticket. I think you did everything right, querying with support and in the forums and I think the advice I and others gave was the best we had at the time, you had to assume PSO had allocated tickets correctly. The fact that they haven't is very poor. I hope they find some reasonable way to compensate people directly affected but not to the detriment of the many players who have played in the correct leagues in good faith.

I own up that I do want to protect my position. As I am sure will at least 500 other Premier players. 500 probably aren't that bothered and 500 would like a restart. No way to square that one.

However I believe my points position, or anyone elses for that matter, would be minimally affected by the addition/removal of the players directly affected. A few places up or down in each tournament maybe but no big difference in overall points. On average the change in personnel would even out. Some of the players unable to play would have done well and some badly. Yes this has a big effect on those directly involved, but for those of us indirectly affected the difference is much less.

I do have an issue with you saying nobody knows what might have happened in tournaments if only.....so therefore a reset is 'fair'. This is not a valid argument. What actually did happen in game is proper evidence of players abilities/skills/luck over this period. Wiping out actual evidence of players performance to be replaced by the 'everyone starts equal' is not an option. Those who have played and scored + or - are not equal in the period of this months league so far.

This is by far the biggest problem I have encountered so far at PSO but as Dan says elsewhere it is a bug of some sort due to the amount of changes. If every time a problem occurs requiring removal/addition of player/s the league has to be reset we may as well just play single tournaments for the prize money and not have a league.

Although I own up I want to protect my position I am trying to be objective and hope this is resolved soon so we can all crack on.

Good luck all

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
 
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Tue Sep 06, 2011, 08:45 PM
(#9)
0HighTimes0's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdinFreeMan View Post
I

Possible solutions:

1) Limit the number of premier tournaments per player for the month to a lowish number of around 30 so that everyone has the chance to catch up and play the same maximum number of tournaments.
get your game on.

Good luck all.

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
I Think This is only way to make Even/Fair To all,For next month(s) leagues (specially for OpenLeague as there's Diff # entrants *5000-10000per game, Total Players: 37338 ( # of Which seam not to ) to PL ) !
* expect Tournament 432665908 entrants=918 ( I couldn't enter)
For points/ranks situation Im not sure whats best way sort out? Hope gets sorted the most Even/Fair for All Thee Best

Last edited by 0HighTimes0; Tue Sep 06, 2011 at 08:48 PM..
 
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It appears this is the way to go.... - Wed Sep 07, 2011, 08:57 PM
(#10)
j2twww's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 35
I was just looking up my ooponents rankings and records as I played them in the Prem league and found some disturbing stats. Of the 5 I checked 3 did not APPEAR to be eligible. There may be many reasons for this but to find 3 on the same table the first time I checked is very odd. 2 of them finished as of AUG 31 in the Open Skill League at 676 and 887th position. I checked and only the top 500 make it. Why are these players at a table in the Prem? The last one was ranked 7352 in the Prem Skill Qualifier League. Again same question...Why? Since then I have found 1 more with no record at all in any league. Maybe others should start checking as well.

Read more: Qualified to play Prem League? - PokerSchoolOnline Forum http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...#ixzz1XJmQnfwi
 
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Wed Sep 07, 2011, 09:07 PM
(#11)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
** Closed **

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