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To ChiltonMafia - Sat Sep 10, 2011, 07:10 PM
(#1)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
After a PM to our moderator, he gave me permission to repost the hands and my comments. So a special thanks to them. (Due to computer lag, the uploads might be slow in coming.)




PokerStars Game #67306997785: Tournament #432665936, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2011/09/10 18:27:56 WET [2011/09/10 13:27:56 ET]
Table '432665936 402' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Ken1942 (7700 in chips)
Seat 2: Mike Gor (590 in chips)
Seat 3: SMILTNIEKS23 (1020 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 5: duende 1 (10430 in chips)
Seat 6: AKKU555 (1010 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: tarceaionut (12740 in chips)
Seat 8: ChiltonMafia (890 in chips)
Seat 9: Pichasf (6760 in chips)
AKKU555: posts small blind 50
tarceaionut: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChiltonMafia [Jd Jc]
dorosh387 is connected
ChiltonMafia: calls 100
Pichasf: raises 6660 to 6760 and is all-in
Ken1942: folds
Mike Gor: calls 590 and is all-in
SMILTNIEKS23: folds
duende 1: folds
AKKU555: folds
tarceaionut: folds
ChiltonMafia: calls 790 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (5870) returned to Pichasf
*** FLOP *** [Kc 6c 6s]
*** TURN *** [Kc 6c 6s] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Kc 6c 6s Qd] [2s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ChiltonMafia: shows [Jd Jc] (two pair, Jacks and Sixes)
Pichasf: shows [Kh 2h] (two pair, Kings and Sixes)
Pichasf collected 600 from side pot
Mike Gor: shows [9s 7s] (a pair of Sixes)
Pichasf collected 1920 from main pot
ChiltonMafia finished the tournament in 3891st place
Mike Gor finished the tournament in 3892nd place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2520 Main pot 1920. Side pot 600. | Rake 0
Board [Kc 6c 6s Qd 2s]
Seat 1: Ken1942 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Mike Gor showed [9s 7s] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 3: SMILTNIEKS23 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: duende 1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: AKKU555 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: tarceaionut (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: ChiltonMafia showed [Jd Jc] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Sixes
Seat 9: Pichasf showed [Kh 2h] and won (2520) with two pair, Kings and Sixes


4.5k gtd
PokerStars Game #67307355345: Tournament #436256884, $2.00+$0.50+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (1000/2000) - 2011/09/10 18:35:36 WET [2011/09/10 13:35:36 ET]
Table '436256884 130' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Querxxxx (92858 in chips)
Seat 2: maison4ik (18653 in chips)
Seat 3: stancuovidiu (80955 in chips)
Seat 4: ChiltonMafia (5167 in chips)
Seat 5: Mango1996 (12775 in chips)
Seat 6: xMaDMaNxxx (7110 in chips)
Seat 7: Bk_6544 (44555 in chips)
Seat 8: bazsac (7130 in chips)
Seat 9: Kernel82 (17613 in chips)
Querxxxx: posts the ante 200
maison4ik: posts the ante 200
stancuovidiu: posts the ante 200
ChiltonMafia: posts the ante 200
Mango1996: posts the ante 200
xMaDMaNxxx: posts the ante 200
Bk_6544: posts the ante 200
bazsac: posts the ante 200
Kernel82: posts the ante 200
Bk_6544: posts small blind 1000
bazsac: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChiltonMafia [Ad 5d]
Kernel82: folds
Querxxxx: folds
maison4ik: folds
stancuovidiu: folds
ChiltonMafia: raises 2967 to 4967 and is all-in
Mango1996: folds
xMaDMaNxxx: raises 1943 to 6910 and is all-in
Bk_6544: folds
bazsac: folds
Uncalled bet (1943) returned to xMaDMaNxxx
*** FLOP *** [2s Kc Js]
*** TURN *** [2s Kc Js] [8s]
*** RIVER *** [2s Kc Js 8s] [Td]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ChiltonMafia: shows [Ad 5d] (high card Ace)
xMaDMaNxxx: shows [Kd 9s] (a pair of Kings)
xMaDMaNxxx collected 14734 from pot
xMaDMaNxxx wins the $0.50 bounty for eliminating ChiltonMafia
ChiltonMafia finished the tournament in 489th place and received $3.57.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 14734 | Rake 0
Board [2s Kc Js 8s Td]
Seat 1: Querxxxx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: maison4ik folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: stancuovidiu folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: ChiltonMafia showed [Ad 5d] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 5: Mango1996 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: xMaDMaNxxx (button) showed [Kd 9s] and won (14734) with a pair of Kings
Seat 7: Bk_6544 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: bazsac (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: Kernel82 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
Old
Default
Sat Sep 10, 2011, 07:12 PM
(#2)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
Let's look at those two hands. First hand, you got pocket jacks. Group two, try making first raise and play from any position. You called the blind. As short stacked, I'm surprised you didn't push all-in pre flop. Though based on the bankrolls, I'm thinking you would have had two more callers. You made the right call.

The question to ask is why Pichasf pushed all-in pre flop. Most logical reason is that he anticipated the other big stacks, Ken1942 and tarceaionut, would fold since it costs them nothing. He figured the other players would fold since it forced them to go all-in. In other words, he attempted to steal the pot.

Yes, pre flop you had the player beat. However, pocket pairs are suppose to be an 8-point favorite if the opponent has one over card. Your odds of winning were 54%. Now let me say this in reverse, as that is more revealing: Your odds of losing were 46%. Regardless of what you read, poker is a game of chance. If the cards are random, it is possible to lose if the initial odds favored you.

That is what happened on the flop. Instead of having a 54% chance of winning, your odds dropped to 8% since you had just two outs on the turn. Once the turn hit the table, your odds were 4%. The odds favored him.

Now let me pose these questions:
1 --- Would it have upset you if he had not gotten that king on the flop?

2 --- What would your impression of the hand be if either the turn or river came up with a jack?

3 --- If you did get the third jack, could Pichasf make the same claim regarding the card distribution?

************************************************** ***********

Your hand, Ace-Five suited, is a group five hand. The usual strategy is to call if in the late position and fold if early, middle, or to any raise. You're player five in this hand, which is middle position. You are also the short stacker, but you are in the money. With such a hand, and already guaranteed a prize, I might have taken the risk. Of course that decision is dependent on my impressions of the other players in the hands prior to this one.

Now look at who called you. Your stack placed you as the number nine player. xMaDMaNxxx has a stack that puts him as player number eight, just one place above you. You offer him an opportunity to almost double his chips without any risks. If he lost, he still has something to bet and he is in the money. If he wins, he eliminates the short stacker, you, goes to $16K, and is now sixth on the table.

His hand is in group eight. Only two players can call his play. BK_6544 isn't going to call in this situation pre flop unless he has a strong hand, groups one or two, with two opponents and a possible third. Against one player, it is a good call, even with a speculative hand. bazsac isn't going to call since it puts him all-in without enough funds to cover the next ante. Once BK_6544 folded, he had a one-on-one hand.

If your opponent was honest, he would think himself busted pre flop. You had the high card. However, the flop sealed your fate. In fact, this hand is the same as the previous one, only reversed. You have the high card to his pair. On the flop, you are an underdog by eight points. Two outs also gives you just an 8% probability of winning. Your best opportunities for a win are slim, (the wheel), and none, (flush). Slim left town when the turn came up an 8, (you needed any three or four), which reduced your probability of winning to 4%. The odds favored him, and he won.

Now let me rephrase the questions I asked earlier:
1 --- Would it have upset you if he had not gotten that king on the flop?

2 --- What would your impression of the hand be if either the turn or river came up with an ace?

3 --- If you the flush, wheel, or ace, could xMaDMaNxxx make the same claim regarding the card distribution?

************************************************** *************

Neither player is retarded. They both gambled, and won. Unless you believe the software is geared to "make certain players/hands win," if there is any chance of a loss, it can happen. You are remembering these hands because you thought your win guaranteed, and nothing is until the river hits the board.

Same thing happens with pocket aces. Those are suppose to be an 85% winner. Those are suppose to be a 15% loser. I can recall every detail of such a hand when that 15% hit. Try as I might, I cannot recall one detail on the hands where the 85% hit. That is human nature.

The question to ask yourself is how much confidence do you have in the random factor employed by the site's software? If you believe there is a bias favoring certain players or situations, run for the door since this is the definition of cheating.

I had that feeling for a long time. I thought the software had a bias against high pockets since so many said the same and my high pockets "always got cracked." A six-month study of my play convinced me the random number generator is just that, random. I even have that data uploaded on this site if you care to take my challenge.
 
Old
Default
.... - Sat Sep 10, 2011, 07:39 PM
(#3)
ChiltonMafia's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairn Destop View Post
Let's look at those two hands. First hand, you got pocket jacks. Group two, try making first raise and play from any position. You called the blind. As short stacked, I'm surprised you didn't push all-in pre flop. Though based on the bankrolls, I'm thinking you would have had two more callers. You made the right call.

The question to ask is why Pichasf pushed all-in pre flop. Most logical reason is that he anticipated the other big stacks, Ken1942 and tarceaionut, would fold since it costs them nothing. He figured the other players would fold since it forced them to go all-in. In other words, he attempted to steal the pot.

Yes, pre flop you had the player beat. However, pocket pairs are suppose to be an 8-point favorite if the opponent has one over card. Your odds of winning were 54%. Now let me say this in reverse, as that is more revealing: Your odds of losing were 46%. Regardless of what you read, poker is a game of chance. If the cards are random, it is possible to lose if the initial odds favored you.

That is what happened on the flop. Instead of having a 54% chance of winning, your odds dropped to 8% since you had just two outs on the turn. Once the turn hit the table, your odds were 4%. The odds favored him.

Now let me pose these questions:
1 --- Would it have upset you if he had not gotten that king on the flop?

2 --- What would your impression of the hand be if either the turn or river came up with a jack?

3 --- If you did get the third jack, could Pichasf make the same claim regarding the card distribution?

************************************************** ***********

Your hand, Ace-Five suited, is a group five hand. The usual strategy is to call if in the late position and fold if early, middle, or to any raise. You're player five in this hand, which is middle position. You are also the short stacker, but you are in the money. With such a hand, and already guaranteed a prize, I might have taken the risk. Of course that decision is dependent on my impressions of the other players in the hands prior to this one.

Now look at who called you. Your stack placed you as the number nine player. xMaDMaNxxx has a stack that puts him as player number eight, just one place above you. You offer him an opportunity to almost double his chips without any risks. If he lost, he still has something to bet and he is in the money. If he wins, he eliminates the short stacker, you, goes to $16K, and is now sixth on the table.

His hand is in group eight. Only two players can call his play. BK_6544 isn't going to call in this situation pre flop unless he has a strong hand, groups one or two, with two opponents and a possible third. Against one player, it is a good call, even with a speculative hand. bazsac isn't going to call since it puts him all-in without enough funds to cover the next ante. Once BK_6544 folded, he had a one-on-one hand.

If your opponent was honest, he would think himself busted pre flop. You had the high card. However, the flop sealed your fate. In fact, this hand is the same as the previous one, only reversed. You have the high card to his pair. On the flop, you are an underdog by eight points. Two outs also gives you just an 8% probability of winning. Your best opportunities for a win are slim, (the wheel), and none, (flush). Slim left town when the turn came up an 8, (you needed any three or four), which reduced your probability of winning to 4%. The odds favored him, and he won.

Now let me rephrase the questions I asked earlier:
1 --- Would it have upset you if he had not gotten that king on the flop?

2 --- What would your impression of the hand be if either the turn or river came up with an ace?

3 --- If you the flush, wheel, or ace, could xMaDMaNxxx make the same claim regarding the card distribution?

************************************************** *************

Neither player is retarded. They both gambled, and won. Unless you believe the software is geared to "make certain players/hands win," if there is any chance of a loss, it can happen. You are remembering these hands because you thought your win guaranteed, and nothing is until the river hits the board.

Same thing happens with pocket aces. Those are suppose to be an 85% winner. Those are suppose to be a 15% loser. I can recall every detail of such a hand when that 15% hit. Try as I might, I cannot recall one detail on the hands where the 85% hit. That is human nature.

The question to ask yourself is how much confidence do you have in the random factor employed by the site's software? If you believe there is a bias favoring certain players or situations, run for the door since this is the definition of cheating.

I had that feeling for a long time. I thought the software had a bias against high pockets since so many said the same and my high pockets "always got cracked." A six-month study of my play convinced me the random number generator is just that, random. I even have that data uploaded on this site if you care to take my challenge.
Thanks i dont wish to get into a long discusiion here regarding the hand but thanks for the input, in private i would chat but in this forum i feel it's impossible to have an adult chat.

Thanks again.
 
Old
Default
Sat Sep 10, 2011, 08:18 PM
(#4)
Deleted user
Dont open limp,that is all.
 
Old
Default
Sat Sep 10, 2011, 09:21 PM
(#5)
ChiltonMafia's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted user View Post
Dont open limp,that is all.
no choice in open league, they shove every hand regardless
 
Old
Default
Sat Sep 10, 2011, 09:41 PM
(#6)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted user View Post
Dont open limp,that is all.





 
Old
Default
Sat Sep 10, 2011, 10:07 PM
(#7)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiltonMafia View Post
Thanks i dont wish to get into a long discusiion here regarding the hand but thanks for the input, in private i would chat but in this forum i feel it's impossible to have an adult chat.

Thanks again.

Last time I checked, my PM button worked. Hedgehog always willing to talk.
 

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