Home / Community / Forum / Support Area / Poker News /

Any advice for when you hit the brick wall ?

Old
Default
Any advice for when you hit the brick wall ? - Sun Sep 11, 2011, 07:03 AM
(#1)
gatehouse999's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 259
Almost a year into my "Poker career" (lol) I have learned a lot but I am no further forward. Everything I do recently turns out wrong,Example, I raise 4x BB with pkt AA and get re-raised to All-in and I run into K-5 off and he hits everything possible and rivers a boat just to rub it in, I call GG as always on my way out only to be given "Ha HA Bye Moron" WTF, Manners ? Now just as well its online because anyone who knows us Scots would know about our temper, that guy from somewhere that ends in "ASTAN" would be living it large in the Trauma ward. Anyway I am on a run of 10 minus scores and cant seem to halt it. I know runs like this happens but would welcome any advice on how you guys deal with it I am well and truely stuck on the downswing. Thanks Gate.
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 09:20 AM
(#2)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Don't be so results oriented. Did you play your AA optimally that hand? If you got it all in preflop vs K5 sounds like you did. Don't worry about how it turned out. In the long run it doesn't matter at all.

Downswings suck, but guess what? The only direction you can go following a downswing is up. So just relax and push on.
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 10:07 AM
(#3)
spike8998's Avatar
Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatehouse999 View Post
Almost a year into my "Poker career" (lol) I have learned a lot but I am no further forward. Everything I do recently turns out wrong,Example, I raise 4x BB with pkt AA and get re-raised to All-in and I run into K-5 off and he hits everything possible and rivers a boat just to rub it in, I call GG as always on my way out only to be given "Ha HA Bye Moron" WTF, Manners ? Now just as well its online because anyone who knows us Scots would know about our temper, that guy from somewhere that ends in "ASTAN" would be living it large in the Trauma ward. Anyway I am on a run of 10 minus scores and cant seem to halt it. I know runs like this happens but would welcome any advice on how you guys deal with it I am well and truely stuck on the downswing. Thanks Gate.
Keep on playing them monster hands strongly
AA vs K5 IS gonna win 4 times out of 5 . FACT
As for the manners , pffff , I lost my chat after 4 days
Bothered ?
Not
Being from Liverpool , I say it as I see it
As you say , villians are lucky its online , VERY imo

spike
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 10:57 AM
(#4)
johannfl's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockerguyAA View Post
Don't be so results oriented. Did you play your AA optimally that hand? If you got it all in preflop vs K5 sounds like you did. Don't worry about how it turned out. In the long run it doesn't matter at all.

Downswings suck, but guess what? The only direction you can go following a downswing is up. So just relax and push on.

The quality of advice you can get in here is awsome.

Yeah I still remember when it clicked with me when river suckouts etc no longer mattered. Now it's all about whether or not I played the hand correctly, even if I win ... i.e. did I extract max. value, etc.

Also, there's nothing wrong with taking a break from the game and clearing your head. You def. dont wanna play when emotional.

Finally, unless in a rare, sticky tournament situation, you can't fu** up playing pocket A's pre flop by going all in. I would play AA vs. K5 or any other hand all day long. If you got your opponent to go all in, you played correctly, and should continue to do whatever you did to get him to do so.

Cheers.
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 11:26 AM
(#5)
CorkiePoker's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 104
I have to agree with the advice already given. You played correctly. I ran into the same thing last month; I felt I played 90% of my tourneys very strongly, but I still almost busted out of the top 800. You cannot dictate the cards. You can only make the correct play.

The hard part is not letting it get to you. I have a game plan, I stick to that plan regardless of the outcome of any individual deals.

I want K5 to shove at me when I'm holding AA. Please, shove. Shove some more. If K5 wins, oh well.

You have to know that poker is percentages. If you always take the correct line of play, eventually the percentages will fall in your favor. In the short run, however, things can go seeming way out of wack. Those are the breaks. Learn to let it go.
 
Old
Default
keep doin wat ur doin - Sun Sep 11, 2011, 11:32 AM
(#6)
whu1895's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 110
BronzeStar
the other folks r rite keep doin wat ur doin the k 5 n q2 mob go down eventualy im 2 years playin this game now the u have 2 take the good wi the bad and as for the idiot donk comments beein a fellow scot i know u would like to c them in a@e but just ignore them ive had my fair share of abuse too does not bother me now i just laugh n watch them as they make mistake aftrer mistake all the best and gl in future
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 11:43 AM
(#7)
mcgameboy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatehouse999 View Post
Almost a year into my "Poker career" (lol) I have learned a lot but I am no further forward. Everything I do recently turns out wrong,Example, I raise 4x BB with pkt AA and get re-raised to All-in and I run into K-5 off and he hits everything possible and rivers a boat just to rub it in, I call GG as always on my way out only to be given "Ha HA Bye Moron" WTF, Manners ? Now just as well its online because anyone who knows us Scots would know about our temper, that guy from somewhere that ends in "ASTAN" would be living it large in the Trauma ward. Anyway I am on a run of 10 minus scores and cant seem to halt it. I know runs like this happens but would welcome any advice on how you guys deal with it I am well and truely stuck on the downswing. Thanks Gate.
Well Gate. Are you doing the same things that you were doing when your results were good? If so, there is no need to panic. As you said yourself, downswings are inevitable. And they are inevitable for even the best players in the world. Take someone like Chris Moorman for example. If his OPR stars are to be believed, he only makes ITM 15% of the time and he is one of the best online tournament players in the world. Poker players, no matter what their skill level is, will "fail" a lot more often than they succeed. That is the nature of the beast.

Here is something you should take some crumbs of comfort from. Another one of our fellow Premier League players, zzHONEYBEEzz, finished 31st in last month's Premier League. But guess how she started this month? EIGHT minus scores from her first 8 games. And it was getting to her just as much then as it is getting to you now. I know this because I was chatting to her at the tables about it while she was on that bad run and I told her what I am about to tell you....that your fortunes will change. And in honeybee's case they did change. She wiped out her minuses and even though she has had three minuses in her last three games she is at least near 1600 and back on the right track. All I can suggest is that you keep doing the right things then eventually the right results will come to you. Keep your focus sharp. Keep your "anti-tilt" close at hand. Do not lose concentration and, most importantly, do not lose heart. Roll those sleeves up and dig those heels in. Tell yourself "I am gonna roll with the punches/downswings and come back strongly". If you start to play like you have given up, you will only dig yourself a bigger hole. I know this because of the last Premier game I played in. Absolutely frustrating start. Didnt win a pot until hand 59. Was really struggling so badly and was ready to throw the towel in and do something stupid. But I didnt give in. I waited for my chances to get back into the game to come. And they did come. And I took them. And most importantly, I ran really good when I had to. I turned what I felt was going to be my worst finish of the month so far into my best finish of the month so far. So be a fighter gate, not a quitter.

As for the "AH" who said Hahah bye moron to you...well...as someone who is prone to being a bit of a "keyboard warrior" himself...all I would say is..dont let that bug you...the fact that he cannot even WIN with class and dignity says PLENTY about him. Next time you see him and he gets busted with a donk suckout like the one he dished out at your expense..issue him with a friendly reminder of his own lack of class. I bet he wont have much to say then. Apart from anything else, if he is shoving with K5 I would suspect that he will end up on the rail a lot earlier than you a lot more often.

Anyways thats my thrupence worth. Good luck with turning it around Gate
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 11:55 AM
(#8)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Take JDean's advice...... Put your nipples in a coffee grinder.... bad beats dont hurt near as much after that as for abusive chat...LOL I have a guy last night call me a donk and an idiot every time I shoved when I got down around 15 big blinds, am I always an idoit..etc, how if I was there, he would kick my ass, and blah blah blah I just told him his chips were gonna look real good under my name....and you know what?.after he called me down with K high...... They really did
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 12:07 PM
(#9)
dale442's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 553
No doubt, it's the wife's fault.

Head off to a live cash game and shove with her pink slip. With weak holdings.....

When things pick up, and the price is right, maybe attempt to get her back...

Dale
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 12:28 PM
(#10)
gatehouse999's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 259
Thanks guys for the support and really good advice. I hope it turns as you say and I dont have to put the wife up as collateral AGAIN.
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 12:39 PM
(#11)
dale442's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatehouse999 View Post
Thanks guys for the support and really good advice. I hope it turns as you say and I dont have to put the wife up as collateral AGAIN.
Oh well, do as you must.

Just a thought...


Dale
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 12:41 PM
(#12)
BUZZLIYEAR's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 217
gate i had 10 - out of 10 last month and came 73 just keep playing youre game bud and pushing youre big hands you get them in good thats all you can do bud gl and run well
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 12:41 PM
(#13)
Crumblepie's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 204
It's important not to lose sight on what your aim is.

I just finished a moths worth of bad running, all the stuff you mention and more. I got pocket K's, so I went and raised and reraised, only to run into pocket A's. Next hand got me pocket K's again, how lucky, because running twice into pocket A's would be crazy right? Wrong, pocket A's it was.

Anyway, I usualy play MTT/SNG's, so after a couple of weeks of getting crushed by hands like, 92o, 73o, all the classics, I tend to move over to cashgames, which I suck at, so I get mauled some more.

Then after a while I remember, I do not like cashgames and I suck at them, so I need to get back into MTT/SNG's.

Do not step away to far and to long from what you like.
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 01:29 PM
(#14)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannfl View Post
Yeah I still remember when it clicked with me when river suckouts etc no longer mattered. Now it's all about whether or not I played the hand correctly, even if I win ... i.e. did I extract max. value, etc.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++ and more!

What matters most in poker is the quality of your decisions, not the result of individual hands. The greatest benefit of programs like HoldEm Manager and Poker Tracker is that they have extraordinarily good tools for such in depth game analysis.
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 02:24 PM
(#15)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
Let me preface my comment by saying I can no longer play cash games.

However, even in play money the cards can go south regardless of the odds. Whenever it happens, I'll go to a different game for a while. Doesn't matter which, just so long as it isn't hold'em for a while. After a few, I'm feeling refreshed by the difference. Sometimes the play when I return makes the break worthwhile. If not, I'll repeat until it does.
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 04:10 PM
(#16)
topthecat's Avatar
Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,962
Gate, I am going to go against the consensus opinion here.

Firstly, we are talking about the Premier League here, I think, and I think like any MTT that the chances of finishing high or even winning greatly diminishes if you are playing a TAG style that is bordering on being nit like. You need something more than just playing your premium hands. And off course winning any MTT takes a little luck as well. I always remember the Langolier emphasizing this very point.

Secondly, I understand, how frustrating it is, if you feel you are making the right plays but the results are not coming. I am not a fan of the "don't be results orientated" crew because what is the point of playing poker if you do not want to win, at least sometimes.

When I first saw your post on Friday, I was going to point you to JDean's "Propensity of Skill" thread, mainly because after coming back to poker after a break I realised I was not doing the right things (even though I know what they are) and felt that I needed to reeducate myself. I have actually spent more time studying than playing this last week, which is a good job because I have been leaking money left, right and centre.

At least the exercise has allowed me to realise where my strengths and weaknesses lie, and where I actually can maintain a bankroll even if I do not set the world on fire.

I discovered that I am good at low ring cash, but success there leads to overconfidence at higher stakes, where I can quickly loose any gains and much more. Putting money into MTTs is a waste of my time, because you need a "little more", I don't know what that "little more" is and until I work that one out I am just pissing money into the wind.

I can play the clocking game in the Open League and if I can manage to get in the volume anything is possible and a possible 1500$ is not to be sniffed at.

So what I would suggest is maybe take the opportunity to play a slightly different style in the Premier League, to see if it can add something to your game, and whatever other games you play find a format where you can make a bit a dosh and just keep grinding away at it to build your bankroll.

If I ever find the secret of being a consistently profitable player, i will be the first to let you know.

Good luck,

TC
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 05:25 PM
(#17)
gatehouse999's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 259
Again TC many thanks I always value your opinion. In the last 5 mins I just busted out the PSO monthly again my AA got rivered,totally sucks. Small compansation it was Buzz who took all my chips and I like the guy,friendly and a decent player. Off to have a right good weep.

Last edited by gatehouse999; Sun Sep 11, 2011 at 05:26 PM.. Reason: /
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 06:53 PM
(#18)
johannfl's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatehouse999 View Post
Again TC many thanks I always value your opinion. In the last 5 mins I just busted out the PSO monthly again my AA got rivered,totally sucks. Small compansation it was Buzz who took all my chips and I like the guy,friendly and a decent player. Off to have a right good weep.

At least you get AA once in a while. I've only seen that hand once all week, well over a thous. hands. However this post is reminding me of how to play JJ.

Theres an old poker idea/ joke of how to play JJ. "There's 2 ways to play JJ, and their both wrong."

I have to disagree w/ that. I play JJ just like 10 10, just slightly looser, or like QQ, just a little tighter, thats all.

If youre still getting frustrated, delve into the math of poker. Then it'll all make sense. .

cheers.
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 07:05 PM
(#19)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by topthecat View Post
Gate, I am going to go against the consensus opinion here.

Firstly, we are talking about the Premier League here, I think, and I think like any MTT that the chances of finishing high or even winning greatly diminishes if you are playing a TAG style that is bordering on being nit like. You need something more than just playing your premium hands. And off course winning any MTT takes a little luck as well. I always remember the Langolier emphasizing this very point.

Secondly, I understand, how frustrating it is, if you feel you are making the right plays but the results are not coming. I am not a fan of the "don't be results orientated" crew because what is the point of playing poker if you do not want to win, at least sometimes.

When I first saw your post on Friday, I was going to point you to JDean's "Propensity of Skill" thread, mainly because after coming back to poker after a break I realised I was not doing the right things (even though I know what they are) and felt that I needed to reeducate myself. I have actually spent more time studying than playing this last week, which is a good job because I have been leaking money left, right and centre.

At least the exercise has allowed me to realise where my strengths and weaknesses lie, and where I actually can maintain a bankroll even if I do not set the world on fire.

I discovered that I am good at low ring cash, but success there leads to overconfidence at higher stakes, where I can quickly loose any gains and much more. Putting money into MTTs is a waste of my time, because you need a "little more", I don't know what that "little more" is and until I work that one out I am just pissing money into the wind.

I can play the clocking game in the Open League and if I can manage to get in the volume anything is possible and a possible 1500$ is not to be sniffed at.

So what I would suggest is maybe take the opportunity to play a slightly different style in the Premier League, to see if it can add something to your game, and whatever other games you play find a format where you can make a bit a dosh and just keep grinding away at it to build your bankroll.

If I ever find the secret of being a consistently profitable player, i will be the first to let you know.

Good luck,

TC
That was a nice post Top ... it's always nice to know that others are going through the same thing. Hopefully the reflection and trying out new things are all positive signs that learning and growth are taking place
 
Old
Default
Sun Sep 11, 2011, 07:11 PM
(#20)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
The variance is crazy. My last game I was actually on the winning side of the crazy variance, and mentally you still get thrown for a loop, because then you're left to feel like if the odds-on-favorite didn't hit and I made a long-shot win, then doesn't that mean that when the odds-on-favorites doesn't hit the next three times I'm bound to lose?

I had a month in PSO where I wasn't winning anything, and it was the most frustrating thing. But the next month turned out okay. I guess we all go through those bouts, eh? A lot of random variance ... it'll get better I'm sure
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com