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AJo in BB - Thoughts Please

 
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AJo in BB - Thoughts Please - Wed Sep 21, 2011, 02:22 AM
(#1)
Jcrondps's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 148
Hello,

I'm deep in a $0.25 MTT with 17 people left, blinds at 2k/4k, and a 400 ante. I had recently had my stack halved after my AT losing to QT so I was down to ~12BBs and I wake up with AJo in the BB. It folds around to the cutoff and he 3x's it.

I hadn't been in a lot of hands with him but he had been fairly quiet the last couple of rotations. Previous to that he was pushing the table around with his stack with all in re-raises. A reshuffle had placed another big stack at our table so I suspected he was slowing down.

My immediate thoughts were "yes", as the button was very short and I anticipated a shove from him. However, the cutoff raise changed my plans. I was now faced with 2 choices. Call and see a flop. If it misses me, fold and I still have 9BBs; or shove and hope I have the best of it. I don't ever see him folding to my shove in that spot, as I suspect he has something like KQ, QJ, Small PP+, or AX.

Please review the following hand and provide me with some thoughts. Did I make the right choice? Was there something I could have done differently?

Thanks in advance


Last edited by Jcrondps; Wed Sep 21, 2011 at 09:32 PM.. Reason: Corrections
 
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Wed Sep 21, 2011, 02:34 AM
(#2)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
No, calling and check/folding the flop is the only thing you CAN'T do here. You can fold, you can shove, you can call and shove any flop since you will have a perfect stack size for it (stop and go play).

Depending on your reads any of those three are viable options. Also, what's the prize structure like at this point? Mostly I'd plan on getting it in. If not preflop then calling and shoving the flop as a stop and go is a nice option as you give bad odds to unimproved hands, when they'd all be getting good odds preflop.

He should never be folding preflop after raising you, but postflop you can cause him to make a mistake by calling with worse or folding better (depending on his tendencies).

Last edited by oriholic; Wed Sep 21, 2011 at 02:56 AM.. Reason: Haha, called stop and go a go and go
 
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Wed Sep 21, 2011, 02:43 AM
(#3)
Jcrondps's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 148
The payout for 17th was $1.84 and 1st was $70.55. The payouts jumps were standard at 16-18th, 12-15th, 10-12th, and 9th-1st. I was obviously shooting for 1st and not just looking to get to the next payout level.

Thanks for your feedback. I agree with the call and fold being a bad idea and that ultimately led to my shove. I didn't really consider the call and shove though. Wouldn't me betting into him post flop look more like a bluff since he was the pre-flop aggressor?

More feedback is welcome.
 
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Wed Sep 21, 2011, 03:14 AM
(#4)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
If he has a hand like KT he is absolutely correct to call with it if you shove preflop (or 68 for that matter.) If unimproved after the flop he may not be getting the right price and you make him choose between calling without the right price or forfeiting his equity in the pot. Say he has KT and the flop is 589. Now what? A decent amount of the time he hits his K or T on the turn/river after you both miss the flop. What about if he has 68 on a K99 flop? If he hits his 6 he'll pull ahead of your AJ but does he really want to call your shove on that board???

It's just another tool to add to your arsenal. Usually a resteal is fine, but stop-and-go has its uses. The idea is that you're still offering the same price, but now he only gets to see 2 more cards instead of the 5 if he calls preflop.

Quote:
Wouldn't me betting into him post flop look more like a bluff since he was the pre-flop aggressor?
Doesn't matter if it looks like a bluff if he can't call (or feels like he can't).
 
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Wed Sep 21, 2011, 03:25 AM
(#5)
Jcrondps's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 148
Good points. I'm being results oriented in my thinking. I now know that he had A,K so there are very few cases where he's going to fold to a post flop shove. At least I have another option for the future when facing a similar decision.

Thanks again for your feedback.
 
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Wed Sep 21, 2011, 03:36 AM
(#6)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
He might fold AK on that flop. AQ, KQ, QJ, QQ, AA, KK, JJ, TT etc. all beat him. I mean, I probably don't fold for such a small portion of my stack, but maybe he folds unimproved.
 
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Wed Sep 21, 2011, 11:24 AM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
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I agree that calling, then check/folding is what you don't want to do.
You need to either shove or fold it preflop and with that few chips left, I'd be shoving it.... especially if the opp was stealing prior to this, as he may have been raising light. If you call, then you should shove immediately.

With your opp's stack, they're probaly calling almost anything, hoping to have 2 live cards against you. Unfortunately, they had you dominated.
 
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Wed Sep 21, 2011, 11:38 AM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oriholic View Post
No, calling and check/folding the flop is the only thing you CAN'T do here. You can fold, you can shove, you can call and shove any flop since you will have a perfect stack size for it (stop and go play).

Depending on your reads any of those three are viable options. Also, what's the prize structure like at this point? Mostly I'd plan on getting it in. If not preflop then calling and shoving the flop as a stop and go is a nice option as you give bad odds to unimproved hands, when they'd all be getting good odds preflop.

He should never be folding preflop after raising you, but postflop you can cause him to make a mistake by calling with worse or folding better (depending on his tendencies).
^^^This
 
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Wed Sep 21, 2011, 04:12 PM
(#9)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
The villain was in cutoff not the button. That changes hand ranges slightly....

Also, for this kind of hand we are basically analysing your preflop play so better to not show the villain's hand and the results.
 
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Wed Sep 21, 2011, 09:25 PM
(#10)
Jcrondps's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockerguyAA View Post
The villain was in cutoff not the button. That changes hand ranges slightly....

Also, for this kind of hand we are basically analysing your preflop play so better to not show the villain's hand and the results.
Hmm, good catch. I should have reviewed the hand before posting to ensure all my details were correct. I was focused on the short stack during the hand and expected a shove from him so I guess I skewed my own recount.

Also, am I supposed to post a partial hand history in cases like this?

Thanks
 
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Thu Sep 22, 2011, 12:54 AM
(#11)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcrondps View Post
Also, am I supposed to post a partial hand history in cases like this?

Thanks
From 'Hand Analysis How To' sticky:
Quote:
3 Cover your hand and hide the results – refrain from posting the results as they can influence how people approach to the hand which is counterproductive. Remember that when playing poker you should never be result oriented.
Most people don't generally go through the trouble of removing the results.... but it is often a good idea to do it. This type of hand especially so because everything is based on the preflop hand range your applying to the opponents (not what two cards they actually had).
 

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