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Keeping notes

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Keeping notes - Wed Sep 21, 2011, 08:25 AM
(#1)
XxTiberxX's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 374
I hear alot about keeping notes on this forum, I would like to try this but i dont know what notes to keep.

Could somebody please give me advice on what notes to keep?
 
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Wed Sep 21, 2011, 09:37 AM
(#2)
!!!111Dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,290
Most importantly, what type of player are they? Are they loose, tight, aggressive, passive, etc.
Once you start there, you can add things like, what types of hands do they like to raise with in early, late position. Are they willing to fold to 3-bets? Those types of things you can just keep adding forever.
You may have also read that you can color code players. You should develop a system for what type of players you want to assign a color for easy quick reference.
Notes are a great and essential tool to use so best of luck with it.
You may also want to look down the road at some programs like poker tracker 3 which will tell you exactly how many hands your opponents are playing and much, much more.
 
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Fri Sep 23, 2011, 04:35 AM
(#3)
S.Vanzella89's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 23
I've always found it hard to keep notes, because as soon as you have someone figured out, they change their strategy. Whether they do it knowingly or not, its sometimes hard to read a player's range in the early stages of a tournament before you/them get moved to a different table.

I'm also looking for advice on this topic as there is always room to improve.

S.Vanzella
 
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Fri Sep 23, 2011, 07:52 AM
(#4)
mcgameboy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 119
What Dan has said is a good starting point.

Another thing you should wish to do when taking notes is making your own form of "poker shorthand", so that you can make your taking more efficient.

Here would be some examples...

tight passive/tight aggressive = TPA/TAG
loose passive/loose aggressive = LPA/LAG
early position = EP
late position = LP
last to act = LTA
any two cards = ATC
cutoff = CO
button = BU
hijack (player before cutoff) = HJ
under the gun/first to act = UTG
second to act = UTG+1
third to act = UTG+2
a hand that is suited/not suited = XXs/XXoff
clubs/diamonds/hearts/spades = c/d/h/s
any ace = Ax
suited connectors = sucons
raise to three times the big blind = R3xBB
bet 40% of pot post flop = B40%P
pot sized bet/raise = PSB/PSR
flop of AK2 with 3 different suits = AK2 rainbow
flop of AK2 with 1 club and 2 spades = AK2 c2s
flop of Ace of diamonds, King of hearts, 2 of spades = AdKh2s
flat called the pre flop raise = FC'ed

You want to make your note taking as streamlined and as efficient a process as possible. If it isn't, a single note on a single opponent can end up becoming a mini essay (a bit like this post then lol). That is not a good thing, as you want to be spending more time observing your opponents tendencies than you do actually typing about them in your notes box. Take the time to read a poker glossary/list of poker terms and learn them. Have your instant hand history and your table(s) positioned in such a way that you can type your notes without having to switch windows all the time. All these little things have helped me make notes on opponents in a more efficient manner. It's particularly important when playing in the Premier League as you are likely to be playing the same players on a more frequent basis due to the small size of the field. Getting familiar with how they play the game can help you make better decisions.
 
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Tue Sep 27, 2011, 12:46 PM
(#5)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
The Langolier is running a class on note taking this saterday at 2pm. He also has a video in the video libary on this topic.

Grade b
 
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Wed Sep 28, 2011, 05:58 AM
(#6)
XxTiberxX's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 374
thanks for the advice all, mmm thats 8 PM for me, not gonna attend it as I have more important things to do like getting wasted
 
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Thu Sep 29, 2011, 03:58 PM
(#7)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
The Langolier is running a class on note taking this saterday at 2pm. He also has a video in the video libary on this topic.

Grade b
Not in the archives yet
 
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Thu Sep 29, 2011, 04:19 PM
(#8)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
My Bad, I will take notes for you.
 
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Fri Sep 30, 2011, 07:35 AM
(#9)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxTiberxX View Post
thanks for the advice all, mmm thats 8 PM for me, not gonna attend it as I have more important things to do like getting wasted
At least u have your priorities straight
 
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Mon Oct 03, 2011, 04:37 AM
(#10)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
"The important Questions you want an IMMEDIATE answer to are:

1) How many hands does he play?
2) Does he bet a lot, or is he a "Calling Station"?
3) Does he bluff?
4) Can he BE bluffed?
5) Does he have a good knowledge of the game, or is he a "weak" player?
6) Is his play thrown off by a "bad beat"?
7) Does he always play the same hand the same way, or does he mix up his play (by "changing gears")?

Quote from Bobby Baldwin's Limit hold 'Em section of the original super/System book...

These are the things I look for right from the start. I keep info regarding these things.
 
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Mon Oct 03, 2011, 10:15 AM
(#11)
Maj. D Zastr's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 120
2 notes on note-taking:

1) I find the color-code labels on PS very useful.
Just for a laugh, I'll share a few codes I use:
Yellow is "loose-aggr-gold-mine"
Purple is "loose-aggr-stupidly-lucky" (changes to Y soon enough usually)
Blue is "clueless"
I also made a "custom" brown label, your guess what it's for ;)

A note on the note on nt... if you follow the low-end of the tourney, it is rather gratifying to see all the yellows and purples and reds go whizzing by :)


2) Something that will help your notes, and it's free and open-source:
free poker database (on sourceforge)
It works better on linux than on msw
It even works with 8-game, stud and badugi
before you complain that "it's complicated"...
.. just make sure you save you hand history before running it :)
 
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Fri Nov 04, 2011, 10:05 PM
(#12)
Neo Potter's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 1
How much do you trust in your inicial notes? and what has to happen so change your mind of a previous note?
 
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Fri Nov 04, 2011, 10:23 PM
(#13)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Potter View Post
How much do you trust in your inicial notes? and what has to happen so change your mind of a previous note?
I do not trust a lot in em, especially if the notes say the opponent is a "donk" type.

"Bad" players can learn.
"Good" players may have been playing you on an "off day".
In short, mistakes made yesterday are no guarentee that the same mistakes will be seen by you TODAY.

As such, I'd strongly suggest you DATE your notes.
The older the date tends to be, the less initial stock I'd place in the notes.

Also, you gotta remember that your notes should not be a REPLACEMENT for your observations. If you treat notes like a "crutch", you can lead yourself into a lot of problems. I prefer to use notes as "indicators of possibilities", but will make sure I see those same indicators TODAY before configuring my exploitative plays. In large part, your past notes can help you in "close edge" situations, where your options are not clear cut; they tend to provide "extra" info upon which you right lean one way or the other.

They are not a replacement for you current table observations by any means...
 
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Sat Nov 05, 2011, 03:06 PM
(#14)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDean View Post
I do not trust a lot in em, especially if the notes say the opponent is a "donk" type.

"Bad" players can learn.
"Good" players may have been playing you on an "off day".
In short, mistakes made yesterday are no guarentee that the same mistakes will be seen by you TODAY.

As such, I'd strongly suggest you DATE your notes.
The older the date tends to be, the less initial stock I'd place in the notes.

Also, you gotta remember that your notes should not be a REPLACEMENT for your observations. If you treat notes like a "crutch", you can lead yourself into a lot of problems. I prefer to use notes as "indicators of possibilities", but will make sure I see those same indicators TODAY before configuring my exploitative plays. In large part, your past notes can help you in "close edge" situations, where your options are not clear cut; they tend to provide "extra" info upon which you right lean one way or the other.

They are not a replacement for you current table observations by any means...

+gazillion and 1

Effective note taking is just one more tool in your toolbox. You should also besides dating the notes (I believe each time you open and/or add anything to notes on a player it updates the date automatically so maybe date each entry as you make it for reference...) take care to acknowledge a rough idea of how many actual hands played with that player you are basing these observations on. Naturally the more hands the more accurate a "read" you are likely to have booked in your notes. Basing notes of just a handful of hands with an opponent is not at all likely to be anything even close to accurate.

As JD said here notes can be an effective SUPPLEMENT to your game but if you get into the habit of using them to SUPPLANT your immediate reads at a table you're asking for trouble.
 
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Sat Nov 05, 2011, 05:13 PM
(#15)
CannonLee's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maj. D Zastr View Post
2 notes on note-taking:

1) I find the color-code labels on PS very useful.
Just for a laugh, I'll share a few codes I use:
Yellow is "loose-aggr-gold-mine"
Purple is "loose-aggr-stupidly-lucky" (changes to Y soon enough usually)
Blue is "clueless"
I also made a "custom" brown label, your guess what it's for

A note on the note on nt... if you follow the low-end of the tourney, it is rather gratifying to see all the yellows and purples and reds go whizzing by


2) Something that will help your notes, and it's free and open-source:
free poker database (on sourceforge)
It works better on linux than on msw
It even works with 8-game, stud and badugi
before you complain that "it's complicated"...
.. just make sure you save you hand history before running it
custom brown label, is it for brown belt ninja?:
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 09:42 PM
(#16)
XXChris123's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,512
BronzeStar
i just color code them basically yellow for stupid and red for smart which is dangerous
as in red = stop A thing to keep in mind going after stupid players can be dangerous
a stupid player could fight you with K 2 off as you hold AK with a flop of K 2 7 . I have been burned before attacking stupid players who get hit stupid hands.
 
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Mon Nov 28, 2011, 11:19 PM
(#17)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
Auto dating on notes would be nice - if my note is from a year ago, it's probably not valid anymore.

 
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Fri Dec 02, 2011, 02:58 PM
(#18)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
I date my notes, but actually like Dave says "if you dont remember the note its probably pretty old." And I dont invalidate old notes, I just look for conformation on them but you should do this with all your notes, not just the old ones... But thankfully most leopards dont change their spots. especially the ones that smell like fish.
 

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