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All in preflop

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All in preflop - Thu Sep 22, 2011, 06:10 AM
(#1)
jonto15's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 26
I was wondering what sort of hands you should be trying to get all the money in preflop?

AK,QUEENS,KINGS,ACES?
 
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Thu Sep 22, 2011, 06:18 AM
(#2)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Cash game or tournament?

Deep, medium or shallow money?

If tourney, regular or turbo?

The answer is the infamous "It depends!"
 
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Thu Sep 22, 2011, 07:03 AM
(#3)
jonto15's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 26
Its micro cash games.

Holdem Manager is telling me out of 1125 hands, ive played AKs 12 times. Ive lost the most money with this hand even though out of the 12 times ive only lost 3 times. These three times was getting it preflop once to run into aces, getting it in on the flop with Top pair top kicker to run into trip aces, and the last time was running into runner runner for my opponent to get a straight

Last edited by jonto15; Thu Sep 22, 2011 at 07:15 AM..
 
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Thu Sep 22, 2011, 07:48 AM
(#4)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Ok here is the thing... the answer to your question is highly dependent on a lot of factors, only 1 of them being the two cards you were dealt.

Here is an example of how extreme the other factors can alter your correct all-in range. In MTT's and SNG's there are times when it can actually be correct to go all-in preflop with 27o. Yes, 27o!!! (well, technically ANY TWO).

When it comes to micro cash games, you generally want to play very straightforward, correct poker. No all-in bluffs or anything similar. Get the chips all-in preflop with hands like QQ+ and AKo, AKs. If you really hate AKo just incluse AKs only but not really correct.

edit-
In 5NL+ it gets a little bit more complicated. Generally speaking, you will have to widen your range slightly against really agressive opponents. They might sometimes put you into marginal all-in spots, but if you back down too often you will be leaking chips like crazy.

Also, I've run into a couple of ultra tight TAGs in the micros. They were so tight preflop that I would lay down every single hand to their all-in except KK,AA. That is a rare example, but it is good to keep an eye on what hands people are getting all-in preflop with.

Last edited by RockerguyAA; Thu Sep 22, 2011 at 08:31 AM..
 
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Thu Sep 22, 2011, 10:05 AM
(#5)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
At 100 BB deep the only hand I'm comfortable getting it all in pre-flop, except against a true maniac, is AA.

~1000 hands is way to few to detect trends. You need at least 10,000 at a level before you can begin to make serious introspection. But I like that you are thinking in that direction.\
 
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Thu Sep 22, 2011, 11:12 AM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Playing deep stacked getting AK in pre is going to be a -EV move against most opponent types at the micro-stakes (super LAGgy and maniac opponents might be the exception). Many of them won't get it in pre without a premium pair or AKs themselves, and you're in terrible shape vs. that range, roughly a 2-1 dog.
 
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Thu Sep 22, 2011, 11:23 AM
(#7)
mytton's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 181
Good advice from Rockerguy and TrumpinJoe. Yes, 1000 hands is too few to draw many conclusions from. Having said that, I had similar troubles with AK when I first started playing and became very cautious with this hand as a result. That was a mistake, but an understandable one, I think. I have readjusted now, but I will still just call a raise or 3 bet with AKo on occasion, rather than raising, and depending on the villain.

In 2NL cash games, at least, there are certainly loose players who will donk all in preflop with all sorts of pocket pairs or two big card hands. These are also the sort of players who overbet a two-suited flop when they hit top pair. Although it seems aggressive I think it would be more accurate to call these defensive plays, they are afraid of being outdrawn or pushed off their hand, so they get the money in upfront. You can obviously widen your calling range for these players, as JJ or TT will often be ahead of their range.

it's important to get a decent read though, as you will also come across otherwise decent tight players who will donk all in preflop with AA or KK only, hoping to get a bored fish to call them. When these guys shove you can easily fold even AK and QQ.
 
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Thu Sep 22, 2011, 02:16 PM
(#8)
jonto15's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 26
Thanks for the advice, it all has been taking onboard!
 
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Thu Sep 22, 2011, 02:41 PM
(#9)
Drywallman3's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 277
very good thread, the lowest stakes where I play is .02/.04. I play the 6-max tables and my range for all in pre flop is A-A K-K Q-Q. I find there are some wild players who have super insane ranges. It took me a bit to get used to how players play where I am at, very different from when I played here. But I don't know how the ring games are here now that U.S. players are out. Maybe the ring games have gotten a little wilder here also.
I also have a question about vpp points. Would I get more playing 9 player tables or 6 player tables?

Thanks -Dry UDS
 
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Thu Sep 22, 2011, 02:56 PM
(#10)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drywallman3 View Post
very good thread, the lowest stakes where I play is .02/.04. I play the 6-max tables and my range for all in pre flop is A-A K-K Q-Q. I find there are some wild players who have super insane ranges. It took me a bit to get used to how players play where I am at, very different from when I played here. But I don't know how the ring games are here now that U.S. players are out. Maybe the ring games have gotten a little wilder here also.
I also have a question about vpp points. Would I get more playing 9 player tables or 6 player tables?

Thanks -Dry UDS
You don't get more on the six max, but you do get a bigger slice of the cake, as there are only a maximum of six players as opposed to nine players, for the vpps/fpps to be divided between.

 

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