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Cowboy's Challenge!

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Cowboy's Challenge! - Thu Sep 29, 2011, 09:42 AM
(#1)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Hey Posse,

As many of you know I have been grinding out my single table sng's with some pretty decent success and now I have a challenge for you!

Starting Nov 1st, if you can complete the Cowboy's Challenge (as will be defined throughout the month of Oct ), PSO will be awarding Step 1 tickets! So you have the whole month of Oct to practise. If you are unfamiliar with the Steps see the link below.

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/tour...s/types/steps/

Come watch my live trainings and cheer me on as I do the same!

Gidee Up!

 
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Thu Sep 29, 2011, 06:32 PM
(#2)
Austerror's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 85
so we have to complete the 100 games within the month of november? or october? or have i missed it entirely?
 
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Thu Sep 29, 2011, 07:23 PM
(#3)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
The challenge will be to complete 100 games at your level you are buying in at starting with 25 buy ins. Oct is practise and this will start in Nov. This is 3.4 games per day. The prize will be one of 3 Step 1 tickets if there are more than 3 qualifiers then there will be a draw for the tickets.

You must most in the forum your results like this.

SB - $87.50 ( 25 x $3.50 )
date tourney id finished cost $ won CB
Nov 1..........12345678..........1/9 ................-3.50................... +14.01.......$98.01
Nov 1..........12345679..........6/9 .................-3.50................... 0.00 ...........$94.51

etc.

Gidee Up!
 
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Thu Sep 29, 2011, 08:06 PM
(#4)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
A few questions:

1 --- Can you tell us which buy-in level(s) are eligible?

2 --- Will the site be monitoring this competition?

3 --- Are there three Step One tickets per buy-in level?

4 --- Does anyone qualify by completing the 100 games?

5 --- Must you announce your intention to participate before the first game?

6 --- How will you stop cheating?
Consider: Player A is grinding these games. He lists only the 100 games where he realized a money finish, but ignores all losses. Or is this allowed?
 
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Fri Sep 30, 2011, 01:30 AM
(#5)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairn Destop View Post
A few questions:

1 --- Can you tell us which buy-in level(s) are eligible? $3.50 and below and must be full not Heads up or fast fifty

2 --- Will the site be monitoring this competition? It will be monitored by myself and PSO

3 --- Are there three Step One tickets per buy-in level? There are 3 tickets available to three qualifiers total

4 --- Does anyone qualify by completing the 100 games? you only qualify if you take 25 buyins at a level and double it after 100 games

5 --- Must you announce your intention to participate before the first game? you must announce your intent and track it in a post

6 --- How will you stop cheating?
Consider: Player A is grinding these games. He lists only the 100 games where he realized a money finish, but ignores all losses. Or is this allowed?
they can't cheat I will monitor it through Poker Pro labs

Last edited by 19honu62; Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 04:09 PM..
 
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Sat Oct 01, 2011, 10:48 AM
(#6)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Who is up for the challenge? You don't think you can play 100 games in a month? It's only 4 per day! Come on you can do it.
Don't think you have the skills? Come on and watch the many videos and join the trainers for their live sessions! Better yet, submit some individual hands for review or send a whole game to Dave ( The Langolier ) or Felix ( xflix ) this is all free folks!

You can't make this stuff up!

Gidee Up!
 
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Sat Oct 01, 2011, 12:10 PM
(#7)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,508
Cowboy, please explain to me where I am misunderstanding Bankroll Management.

I understood that proper Bankroll Management, meant that you never sit down or enter a Tournament that costs more than 5% -10% of your total Bankroll.

"If you enter a Tournament ( here substitute Challenge ) that costs you more than 5% of your TOTAL Bankroll, then you are using BAD Bankroll Management ?"

25 buy ins ( which is this particular Challenge ) starting price, and play minimum of 100 games or BUST,
even at $1.10 per Buy in would cost $27.50 would mean a minimum Bankroll of $550. Even if you used the 10% level, you would still need a Bankroll of $275.

I don't think that the majority of PSO members have this kind of Bankroll, so aren't you encouraging 'Bad Bankroll Management' with this challenge ?

 
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Sat Oct 01, 2011, 12:36 PM
(#8)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Great post Bill, but your math confuses me.......................

I absolutely am not encouraging bad bankroll management........ I am putting out a challenge to people to take assuming they follow good bankroll management. Let me explain......

First off there are different schools of thought about how many buyins you need to play a particular discipline or level and mine has consistantly been 100. I appreciate some others feel 200 or even 50 is adequate and of course depending on your skill, this will be different.

If your bankroll is $25 then under good bankroll management you should not be playing anything higher than $.25 games! So you take 25 buyins or $6.25 and heeb it up by playing 100 games. You will not likely lose 25 straight games ( and if you do pm me for some individual free help )
If you have $50 bankroll you can play the $.50 level or $150 the $1.50 level etc up to the $3.50 buy ins which my challenge allows for.

I hope this clarifies things.

Gidee Up!


Last edited by 19honu62; Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 12:40 PM..
 
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Sat Oct 01, 2011, 02:25 PM
(#9)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post
Great post Bill, but your math confuses me.......................

I absolutely am not encouraging bad bankroll management........ I am putting out a challenge to people to take assuming they follow good bankroll management. Let me explain......

First off there are different schools of thought about how many buyins you need to play a particular discipline or level and mine has consistantly been 100. I appreciate some others feel 200 or even 50 is adequate and of course depending on your skill, this will be different.

If your bankroll is $25 then under good bankroll management you should not be playing anything higher than $.25 games! So you take 25 buyins or $6.25 and heeb it up by playing 100 games. You will not likely lose 25 straight games ( and if you do pm me for some individual free help )
If you have $50 bankroll you can play the $.50 level or $150 the $1.50 level etc up to the $3.50 buy ins which my challenge allows for.

I hope this clarifies things.

Gidee Up!

Sorry Cowboy if my figuring is a bit too basic.

Let me try to explain what I mean.

The object ( as far as I can see ) is to take 25 buy ins at whatever level you decide and play Poker until, either, You Bust out or you complete 100 tourneys. At the end of the Challenge you have lost all your original buy ins, made some kind of small loss or made a profit.

This challenge must be viewed as ONE Tournament with one buy in ( equivalent to 25 ), so if One Buy in is $0.25 total, then you must put at risk $6.25

You cannot assume that you are going to be profitable straight away, you may not reach the money in the first twentyfour games (and in that case you have definitely risked all of the $6.25) even though you may come first in the rest of the 76 games and turn an absolute massive profit, you must still view this as a single Buy in of $6.25

Now if your Bankroll is $25 then you are Buying in with the equivalent of 25% of your Bankroll not 10% or 5%.

Therefore if you are using 10% as your base, then you will need to have a Bankroll of $62.50 for this to be good Bankroll Management. And if using 5% then your Bankroll needs to be $125.

I hope you can understand now where I was coming from ?

 
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Sat Oct 01, 2011, 02:50 PM
(#10)
RedLetterman's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 665
Now I'm completely lost Bill. (but what else is new)
 
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Sat Oct 01, 2011, 04:18 PM
(#11)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
If you have $25 and you play a $.25 game you are risking 1 buy in Bill. You still have 99 left and the challenge is to take 25 of them and play. If you have $10 then you play the $.10 games. If you have no money then you play the freerolls I'm not sure what the issue is here!

Gidee Up!
 
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If I understand correctly - Sat Oct 01, 2011, 05:27 PM
(#12)
gmanwicksy's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 861
the lowest single table buyin sit and goes are 1.50 then 3.50.....so theres only 2 choices at single table..... 25 games at 3.50=87.50,,,,, 25 games at 1.50=37.50,,,, so you only need one of these 2 amounts to start with,,,,,......

if you bust you bust,,,,

starting bankroll,,,,, if you didnt pay more than 5 % per game means at the start,,,,,87.50 is more than enough,,,,,cus 87.50 x .05=4.375....therefore for 3.50 challenge you only need 70 dollars to start really,,,70 x .05=3.50,,,,so you need 70 bucks to start,,,, but 87.50 insures you have the 25 buy ins to start,,,,,
so in bankroll theory,,, if you run bad,,, ,, then you cant really do this challenge,,,

also in bankroll theory you could win right away,,,and then be able to up your 5 % to the 7 buck games ,before the challenge is up,,,,, so therefore,,,you wouldnt complete the challenge because you would go up a level,,,,is this a bankroll challenge? No,,, its purpose is different,,,, and should be taken as,,,,, if you dont have 37.50 or 87.50 to risk,,,,, then forget it,,,.....but if you do,,,,,..it sounds like fun and a good way to help build your fpps for the month league,,,,,and enjoy the challenge,....at least thats how I see it through cats eyes,,,,,,,,and maybe make some money,,,and if not,,,take Honu up on the free lessons
 
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Sat Oct 01, 2011, 05:27 PM
(#13)
r0ck.carver's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 201
ok cowboy ....oct1 2011 I am going to try 25cent nlhe 90 games starting today at 2:30 pac.time and will run with it through to 100 games ...see how I do ...It's a great test like the idea!
ps David Gogo blues meister extrodinaire......
 
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Sat Oct 01, 2011, 05:38 PM
(#14)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19honu62 View Post
If you have $25 and you play a $.25 game you are risking 1 buy in Bill. You still have 99 left and the challenge is to take 25 of them and play. If you have $10 then you play the $.10 games. If you have no money then you play the freerolls I'm not sure what the issue is here!

Gidee Up!

I think you are totally missing the point here Chris.

This Challenge is made up of a minimum of 25 games and a maximum of 100 games depending on how well you do.

You MUST ( if you take up this challenge ) assume the worst and that you will not money in any of the first twenty four games. thus you must be prepared to lose the initial $6.25. You would be very unfortunate to do this, but this eventuality must be taken into account, as it CAN happen even to the best players.

Therefore on entering into this challenge, you are prepared to lose $6.25 and if your Bankroll is only $25 then you are wagering 25% of your total funds.

The cost of an individual game is immaterial, except for calculating how much you will need to put aside in order to participate in at least 25 games. In this instance the cost of an INDIVIDUAL game CANNOT be equated as a percentage of your Bankroll.

You MUST factor in the possibility that you will spend the ENTIRE 25 buy ins, plus winnings garnered along the way, prior to the 100th game and the possibility that you may lose the lot.

The Challenge MUST be taken as a whole as far as cost is concerned, and not broken down into individual games.

This is copied from your OP

SB - $87.50 ( 25 x $3.50 )
date tourney id finished cost $ won CB
Nov 1..........12345678..........1/9 ................-3.50................... +14.01.......$98.01
Nov 1..........12345679..........6/9 .................-3.50................... 0.00 ...........$94.51

You will see that you have a starting balance of $87.50 and that after subsequent games the current balance is shown as either positive or negative to the previous balance, dependant upon the outcome of that game.
You show positive or negative for individual games, but you are also showing a running Total and it is the Total that is the more important.
The individual games mean nothing in and of themselves, it is the Total that is Paramount.
After all, besting the challenge is calculated, not on how many individual games were won or lost, but on how much money has been accumulated above and beyond the initial Starting Balance.

And it is that Starting Balance that must be used as the percentage of Bankroll, it MUST be viewed as a SINGLE buy in to the Challenge.

I don't know how to put it any more simply

 
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Sat Oct 01, 2011, 05:49 PM
(#15)
19honu62's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,770
Keep in mind you can play any game from 6 players and up and is not limited to single table sng.

And for the final time Bill you can stop anytime...... you don't have to bust or you don't have to take the challenge at all! Seriously there are incentives being offered by PSO unique to this challenge and most people are playing anyway! If you are not playing for money then what are you playing. If you go in a money game Bill and don't cash do you stop playing because you don't have the bankroll anymore? Most people will play 25 games and not even think about it. Maybe this isn't for you!

There are $.02 games right up to $3.50 to qualify for a STEP ticket.

Gidee Up!

Last edited by 19honu62; Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 10:56 PM..
 
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Sat Oct 01, 2011, 10:10 PM
(#16)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
I believe I can understand both viewpoints, and they are valid.

Bill Curran:

His idea of proper bankroll management has merit. His assertion that the challenge goes against the 5% to 10% of a stake is correct. His example has a person risking 25% of their stake on the challenge. My thinking is that everyone here would advise against a person risking a one-time investment of 25%, so he is asking why it is valid in this case.

19Honu62:

The idea of establishing a minimum level for the competition has merit as it gives the participant sufficient opportunities at growing a stake while limiting the loss. By setting the criteria at the cost of 25 games, losses are limited. And that is the answer to Bill's question. If one were to use valid bankroll management, one could only play five games. And this is where you gave him the appropriate answer, if you haven't realized any wins in those first five games, stop.


Where the problem lies:

My thought is that Bill is considering the problem of controling one's impulses to continue the challenge beyond the limit. What he is saying is the temptation exists to reload if you lose. This is a valid concern, but that is something only the specific player can control. It is not a factor to over ride the merits of the challenge.

Since nobody is committed to the minimum 25 games, Bill can break once his losses equals either $1.25, or $2.50, dependent on which bankroll percentage he believes appropriate.

As far as his stake, the criteria is that he has a minimum of $6.25 in his account. It does not obligate him into playing that amount. If Bill holds to bankroll management, it requires him to withdraw from the challenge once his losses reaches the percentage threshhold.

Naturally, if that point is reached before the hundred games are played, he abandons the challenge and nothing is lost but the effort. If he does finish the challenge, the calculation for the prize assumes he committed the $6.25.

If I were still able to play cash games, I would be strongly tempted to try this. My percentage would be around 15%, but again, that is only a qualification criteria. A player is not committed to the full hundred games. Nor is a player committed to the minimum 25 games.
 
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Sat Oct 01, 2011, 11:09 PM
(#17)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,287
You are still bound by standard BR management rules - I would take this challenge, but my BR is in the $400 range. I can well afford to take the challenge, and nowhere in the original post did I see anything that would encourage peeps that could not afford it to take this challenge.

Take this in the spirit that was intended (I think) to encourage peeps to try different things to expand their game.
 
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Sun Oct 02, 2011, 12:29 PM
(#18)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,032
(Community Coordinator)
Well, I'm in..... sounds like fun.

My only question is do we post the results on this thread or start a separate individual thread?

And can we mix up the number of entrants eg: 45/90/180 man sit and go's?

Thats 2 questions right!

Good Luck to everybody taking this challenge up!
 
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Sun Oct 02, 2011, 01:31 PM
(#19)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,508
First of all Thanks to Cairn Destop, your summation was excellent and precisely what I meant.
Secondly to 19honu62, Sorry Cowboy for the confusion. My bad, this is the bit that confused me.

Quote: And for the final time Bill you can stop anytime.....

I thought that once accepted, then the challenge MUST be completed, sorry for the confusion.

 
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Sun Oct 02, 2011, 02:26 PM
(#20)
Cairn Destop's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,477
BronzeStar
The old hedgehog hopes you take that challenge, Bill. I'll be the furry guy with the pom-poms on the rail. Worse that can happen is reaching your break point in five games. All you need is one win to continue a bit deeper.
 

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