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KK on 10BB stack after 4x EP raise from goofball - shove or fold?

 
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KK on 10BB stack after 4x EP raise from goofball - shove or fold? - Sat Oct 01, 2011, 11:34 PM
(#1)
ILuvPoker77's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 84
Background for this hand:

The player immediately to my right (Rocket360) had already demonstrated himself to be a bit of a goofball w/ pre-flop raises. So far in this SNG I had noted him making a 6x open raise (blinds 15/30) from UTG+2 and showing down pocket fours, another 6x open raise from UTG+1 (blinds 25/50) that didn't go to SD, and a 5x open raise from the button w/ KJs (blinds 50/100). So, when he made a 4x raise from UTG+1 in this particular hand, even though the blinds were up to 75/150, I knew that didn't necessarily mean aces for this guy.

However, it was quite likely that he or someone else at the table had at least one ace, and since Rocket's raise was <1/3 of his stack, but >1/3 of mine, I decided calling and having an ace flop, then having to fold, would demolish my fold equity, wasn't worth the risk, and therefore I should either utilize my fold equity and shove, or fold. I elected to shove.

Did I make the best decision under these circumstances, or should I have laid the kings down (outcome of hand is omitted)?

 
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Sat Oct 01, 2011, 11:51 PM
(#2)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
I wouldn't have any problem with shoving in that situation, but there were a lot of peeps still to act behind you. I would have probably have just called the raise and re-evaluated on the flop. Faced with an A high flop, you can fold and still have some chips to fight a later hand.
 
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Sat Oct 01, 2011, 11:58 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
(Super-Moderator)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joy7108 View Post
I wouldn't have any problem with shoving in that situation, but there were a lot of peeps still to act behind you. I would have probably have just called the raise and re-evaluated on the flop. Faced with an A high flop, you can fold and still have some chips to fight a later hand.
+1 My thoughts exactly.
 
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Sun Oct 02, 2011, 01:23 AM
(#4)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,286
Thanks JWK24, I respect your opinion, good to know I'm finally getting this game.

 
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Sun Oct 02, 2011, 01:35 AM
(#5)
chuckkky's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 913
Less than 10 BB I am shoving every time.
 
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Sun Oct 02, 2011, 02:28 AM
(#6)
PaidInFull6's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 342
Standard shove.
You cant possibly call and fold EVER, 600 chips is 41% of your stack, calling and folding would be a huge mistake. I'm not folding KK preflop in a SNG, and with what you have noted on this guy I don't think it is even a question I'm happily shoving.
 
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Sun Oct 02, 2011, 07:34 AM
(#7)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
You have just under 10BB and the 2nd nut starting hand. The table is short handed so your position post flop would be good if you are in the hand post flop with either just the original aggressor or them and any calls from the blinds, but in any case I would not be wanting to call/fold here even if an ace does come on the flop.

For me it is clearly a shoving situation, I'm not worried if one of the players behind is holding a big ace, and if they do have AA - well so be it. I'm getting it all in preflop. I suspect the short stacked small blind might call with any reasonable hand and your original villain too, so good chance to take down a big pot. We should be looking to chip up here and aiming for the top spots, not to hold out for a min cash. You want situations like this all day long.

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
 
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Sun Oct 02, 2011, 10:59 AM
(#8)
ILuvPoker77's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 84
Thanks, all, for your thoughts. It's interesting to note there are some differing opinions.

Here is the actual outcome of the hand. It turned out that Rocket was not the problem, but there were, as joy7108 pointed out, still a lot of peeps to act behind me. And a couple of them had hands, unfortunately.

I think if I had just called this pre, the 2 people in later position most likely would still have shoved, and I would have been put to a very tough decision.

 
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Sun Oct 02, 2011, 11:20 AM
(#9)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Its a shame you lost, but that changes nothing about the original decision. The fact that both villains turn up a big ace hand would have me jumping for joy. It leaves only 2 aces in the deck and makes you roughly a 70% favourite and each of them around only 15% to take it down. +EV to you in the long run by a country mile.

Don't worry about the individual result. When you win this pot you are set up nicely for a high finish. Those are where the big profits come from, so losing these occassionally is just the required price for getting it in good when you have it and making enough deep runs to really pay you off.

Good Luck

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
 

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