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Online poker software :(

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Online poker software :( - Thu Oct 06, 2011, 11:53 AM
(#1)
BillyBustedU's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 1
My dad has been playing online poker for about 6 years now, and myself around 4 years, and i remeber when he started playing (i had just learnt the game by playing home games with freinds so was just in the honeymoon phase of the game itself) him saying things like "Online software is *insert expletive here* rigged to favour the big stack/the maniac players", so eventually i opened up an account (with a site that cannot be named becasue i WILL get angry about my bankroll being stolen from me!) and tried to discover it for myself.
One of the first things i noticed is this: if you have a promotion running, i.e. a deposit bonus or refer freind bonus, you run REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD. Cash tables seem to be the worst for it, being the place where its easiest to grind out your bonus points and being the place where people are happy to just shove with rags (why??????)
Secondly: The more manically you play, the better you do i.e. i had aces cracked 5 times of 7 in the last week or so by complete muck hands or even worse totally dominated hands like A,6o amongst many other horrible horrible beats (only got 2-3 outs? yeah sure call my all in and hit them EVERY TIME!!!.....i dont even want to say anything about the numerous times i've hit a straight and got owned to a runner runner 4 card flush or i have flush and the river gives them higher flush). In these instances the guys that cracked me were usually completely insane (open shove with K,J fomr UTG? hello? WTF?? Oh you just won the pot......ill go join another game then shall I?)
My point....more question is this: Is there any definitive answear out there as to wether or not poker software is (im not going to say rigged here, its way too strong a word) a bit dodgy? Or more to the point is it set up so it favours a particular kind of play?
I love playing poker and its 100% ace (pun intended) i can play it from home whenever i want, but the whole idea of it being favourable to certain play styles is ridiculous, but im leaning more and more to that way of thinking after being penetrated again and again by a massive *another expletvie here* disguised as A,6o.
Thanks
 
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Thu Oct 06, 2011, 11:56 AM
(#2)
Da Sens Fan's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,118
Have you ever actually taken the time to check some of these epic donks online cash stats etc? Normally they are down thousands of dollars (Depending on your limit). Just because they have won short term, does not mean they are actually winners in poker. Just a suggestion....
 
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Thu Oct 06, 2011, 08:00 PM
(#3)
Weeharry777's Avatar
Since: May 2010
Posts: 18
If you asked me for an honest answer I would have to say yes it is very suspect.I have found I make a couple of deposits to get my bonus started then I hit some incredible hands usualy taking me from my £10 deposit up to around $55 mark.then it keeps going to between $55 to $30 up and down and up and down till my bonus gets to around 80% then I cant buy a hand.
Like you said AAQQ hit by trip 2s or 3s on the river or four clubs,diamonds,hearts,spades.
I would love to kmow the percentage rate of hands won on the river comming from behind I think that would be very high.I dont see me staying much longer I usualy only play small ball poker as I look on it as for amusement purposes only.But then that s only my point of veiw no dout you will get pleant others.
 
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Fri Oct 07, 2011, 01:38 AM
(#4)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeharry777 View Post
If you asked me for an honest answer I would have to say yes it is very suspect.I have found I make a couple of deposits to get my bonus started then I hit some incredible hands usualy taking me from my £10 deposit up to around $55 mark.then it keeps going to between $55 to $30 up and down and up and down till my bonus gets to around 80% then I cant buy a hand.
Like you said AAQQ hit by trip 2s or 3s on the river or four clubs,diamonds,hearts,spades.
I would love to kmow the percentage rate of hands won on the river comming from behind I think that would be very high.I dont see me staying much longer I usualy only play small ball poker as I look on it as for amusement purposes only.But then that s only my point of veiw no dout you will get pleant others.

Harry you don't have to ponder how many times people have come from behind to beat you on the river and how. Or what %'s you AA,KK,QQ...Hell ANY hands win at,all the way down to 32o.

Download the trial version of Pokertracker3 (PT3) or Hold Em Manager (HEM) and go to the hand history and analysis features. It will show you.

Fair warning you may just NOT like what it tells you too much.

As to the way the Pokerstars RNG works there are plenty of links out there on this. Just Google it---Pokerstars RNG. They even have a link here at the site explaining it of you will bother to look.

Or you can just keep a tidy supply of tin-foil hats at hand...
 
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Fri Oct 07, 2011, 04:52 PM
(#5)
Weeharry777's Avatar
Since: May 2010
Posts: 18
moxi I think you may have missread my post when I spoke of the percentage of hands comming from behind to win I was not just talking of the hands I was involved in I was talking of all hands on pokerstars.Say take it over 1000 or 5000 hands or over a 24 hour period.Sometimes when im running bad I like to sit and wach other people play and just take some notes.some of the hits you see make your skin crawl.I seen a table in a big tourny on tv the other week ofhand i cant remember the players but 1 of the players ended up with 4 Qs and the other poor guy had 4 9s so bad beats are out there even for the pros.but the 2 guys commontating on the play were nearly wetting themselfs because it is a rare accurance in televised games but I have seen it about 4 times in the last few months between here and another site I play at.
 
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Fri Oct 07, 2011, 04:56 PM
(#6)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
its all rigged here, try full tilt i hear they r fair
 
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Fri Oct 07, 2011, 05:06 PM
(#7)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
moxi I think you may have missread my post when I spoke of the percentage of hands comming from behind to win I was not just talking of the hands I was involved in I was talking of all hands on pokerstars.Say take it over 1000 or 5000 hands or over a 24 hour period.Sometimes when im running bad I like to sit and wach other people play and just take some notes.some of the hits you see make your skin crawl.I seen a table in a big tourny on tv the other week ofhand i cant remember the players but 1 of the players ended up with 4 Qs and the other poor guy had 4 9s so bad beats are out there even for the pros.but the 2 guys commontating on the play were nearly wetting themselfs because it is a rare accurance in televised games but I have seen it about 4 times in the last few months between here and another site I play at.

Read more: Online poker software - PokerSchoolOnline Forum http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...#ixzz1a8HRwhaD



AND THEY PLAY WAY MORE HANDS HERE THEN ON TV
IF YOU DIDN'T SEE IT MORE HERE YOUR NOT LOOKING


Last edited by hemetdennis; Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 05:10 PM.. Reason: OPP'S DID WRONG QUOTE
 
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Fri Oct 07, 2011, 05:14 PM
(#8)
joker41673's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,850
I know exactly what is being said here and I have to confess that I too have seen this first hand.
I was running horribly and just either couldn't win or would have never put money on the hand just to watch it become a monster by the river card.
Then I found a way to beat it.
I first got me a very VERY large stone and placed it in my back yard.
Next I dug me a fairly good size pit next to it. Then went to the woods and caught me a rabbit with a trap and gathered some wood while I waited for the rabbit.
I then placed the wood into the pit and lit it on fire.
While chanting prayers from the satanic bible I placed the rabbit on the stone and slit it's throat with a knife.
After drinking some of the blood I then eat it's heart and PRESTO!!!!!
80% of my hands win no matter what cards they are!!!

 
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Fri Oct 07, 2011, 06:24 PM
(#9)
Maj. D Zastr's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 120
Aw come on, Joker, you can only do that when the moon is in the 7th house and Jupiter aligns with Mars. In the present astropolitical situation, you're better off shaqqing a goat at a quarter to midnight (being a quarter moon and all) , but only after you sql-inject the randomiser with the leftovers of the deep-packet-sniffer on the villain's goat's tail end.

Any six-year-old would know that.
 
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Fri Oct 07, 2011, 09:26 PM
(#10)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeharry777 View Post
moxi I think you may have missread my post when I spoke of the percentage of hands comming from behind to win I was not just talking of the hands I was involved in I was talking of all hands on pokerstars.Say take it over 1000 or 5000 hands or over a 24 hour period.Sometimes when im running bad I like to sit and wach other people play and just take some notes.some of the hits you see make your skin crawl.I seen a table in a big tourny on tv the other week ofhand i cant remember the players but 1 of the players ended up with 4 Qs and the other poor guy had 4 9s so bad beats are out there even for the pros.but the 2 guys commontating on the play were nearly wetting themselfs because it is a rare accurance in televised games but I have seen it about 4 times in the last few months between here and another site I play at.


Harry that's ONE televised tournament,and they don't show all the hands in those on TV. I'm betting even in that tourney there were several occasions early on in that tournament where 2 or more "dead money" players (they show up all the time after all...) were in some incredible hands with some sick suck outs. Again ONE televised tourney.

Now I won't pretend to know how many live tourneys are shown on the telly each week in your part of GB but where I am here in the states (Baltimore) I would say that on average if one wanted they could see oh, 4-8 hours a week on ESPN and ESPN2,several to many more on ESPN Classic (canned from past WSOP and US Poker Championships,some Euro tournaments,whatever). Then there is the WPT on the Travel Channel I think? And a local sports channel on our cable system has some Heartland Poker Tour telecasts. So a fair amount of live poker on the tube.

Now compare that to what is going on at any given minute on Stars,including the very second that you read this post. Click into the lobby. As I type this there are roughly 127,000 players playing on roughly 20,300 tables. And we both know that numbers like this are a constant here and were even higher,significantly so,when US players could play for real money here.

And somehow you,me or anyone else can actually believe that they are being singled out for a different result than someone else. Or that they just set the program up for action and being the first one in will ensure survival,I've heard that one a thousand times if I've heard it once as well. Someone answered in another post on that to a simple fix being available---just shove first.

I've run hot,bad and indifferent at various times on here myself. It goes in cycles but I've never,not once,seen any rhyme or reason to it. Think maybe you may be trying to convince yourself of something being there that isn't.

For myself I long ago rectified myself to one reality though and began working on squaring my psyche around it,that being that I'm a pretty solid player and don't play Bingo with my chips. Meaning most of the time when I get it in I get it in good. And that means that I'm always going to be on the receiving end of more suckouts,runner runner binks and bad beats then I'll ever dole out.

Beats the Hell out of the alternative if you ask me.

Good luck to ya.
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 12:37 AM
(#11)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,284
+1000 Moxie. As long as you blame the RNG for all your bad luck, you have a good excuse not to study and improve your game. Accept responsibility for your decisions, good ones will result in an overall winning game.

PS. I started with zero, and have a comfortable BR now, I don't think it's cause they like me.
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 01:09 AM
(#12)
hemetdennis's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,019
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joy7108 View Post
+1000 Moxie. As long as you blame the RNG for all your bad luck, you have a good excuse not to study and improve your game. Accept responsibility for your decisions, good ones will result in an overall winning game.

PS. I started with zero, and have a comfortable BR now, I don't think it's cause they like me.

NO IT'S COZ THEY FEAR YOU


 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 01:37 AM
(#13)
yahooza1's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 141
BronzeStar
"Random Number Generator (RNG): a system, device or module that creates a sequence of apparently unrelated numbers."

apparently being the key word here
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 07:22 AM
(#14)
joker41673's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by yahooza1 View Post
"Random Number Generator (RNG): a system, device or module that creates a sequence of apparently unrelated numbers."

apparently being the key word here
The poker gods are aware that you know too much.

You should try using a lamb instead of the rabbit!!

 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 07:59 AM
(#15)
Da Sens Fan's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,118
This is just another reason why Bad Beat forum sections are Epic Fail.

Less conspiracy crap and more poker!
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 10:23 AM
(#16)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Funny I've had the exact same experience as you guys, more than once over the years, yet I came out on top in the end.

Variance is always shifting up and down all the time. Odds are you won't experience downswings too often. So what happens is when you deposit money, odds are you won't start playing in a downswing. A week or two later you run into a downswing and think Pokerstars has come to get you...

It is funny comparing seeing a rare hand in a live tournament to seeing rare hands while playing online cash games. They edit out so many hands in live tournament tv, the odds of seeing a rare hand in the 40 hands/hour they show is truely really small. It is just as unlikely during 40 hands online. In fact, I had to play over 70,000 hands online before I caught a royal flush(according to PTR). Not only that, but I've been playing poker for over 6 years and that is the only royal flush I've ever caught. I don't think I have ever had 4 of a kind lose to a straight flush, royal flush, or bigger 4 of a kind. I think I had an A high flush lose to a straight flush once or twice ever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yahooza1 View Post
"Random Number Generator (RNG): a system, device or module that creates a sequence of apparently unrelated numbers."

apparently being the key word here
Yes RNG's cannot produce truely random numbers. It has been discussed on the forums plenty of times in the past. That said, my guess is you probably wouldn't notice the difference between truely random and RNG random over millions of hands. On top of that, I've been told Pokerstar's RNG somehow utilizes several sources of entropy to help overcome the flaw that computers can't calculate true randomness. My source for this is this forum/forum mods. No idea where else you could find info on this.
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 06:11 PM
(#17)
Maj. D Zastr's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockerguyAA View Post
I've been told Pokerstar's RNG somehow utilizes several sources of entropy
Mainly people's mouse clicks, and that's as random as you can make it.
I've read lots of reliable info on the subject, I'm the ultimate skeptic, and I believe all of it.
Way they say it works, they have (dedicated) machines that just "shuffle" packs, meaning they random-crunch numbers, and then spit the cards (just a little sequence of numbers, like 2c, 3h, 7d, etc.) to the tables.
Once "at" the table, they're just dealt sequentially to the players.

It just makes so much sense it's hard not to believe it, and there's really no way you could rig that if the algorithm or even just the results could be audited. Unless you're Derren Brown, of course :)
(Search for Derren Brown RNG for a laugh)

Famously, it was audited by CDigital a few years back... and one bit of the results was quite interesting:
http://www.cigital.com/resources/gaming/poker/
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 07:34 PM
(#18)
frasierbeams's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 145
hello Billy

It would be intersting to know at what stakes you play at . Micro , low and some medium stakes games are full of bingo/bad players and some times you have to ask yourself why are these players playing the game : are they playing for fun , playing to learn or improve their game , are they playing for profit ? i am sure there are some players out there who like to play donk bingo coz they get a giggle out of donk busting someone when they flat call a 4 bet with something like 6 2 off suit or 5 bet with the same hand because they have seen Tom Dwan do it on the TV . Poker at all levels is a total grind and bingo players either have a minimal bankroll or one that is subject to huge swings ; if you want to grow your bankroll steadily you need to grind and play pretty solid poker ; as Phil Gordon says your bank roll won't grow overnight .

As for software being ' a bit dodgy ' this is a hard question to answer . Pokerstars' RNG was designed by a Swiss company called Quantique and tested by a company called Cigital . I f you have any queries regarding the RNG I suggest you contact either of these companies as Pokerstars will refer you to them if you contact them about this . Analyze your own hand histories and as many others as you can get hold of and if you detect any dodginess I would keep it to yourself and try and expolit it .

Keep playing the game you enjoy , suffer the bad beats , curse swear and berate the donk that busted you , take a deep breath , close the game and start up the next one .

Remember that poker is a game of betting , situation and decision making ; very often your hole cards are the last factor in the equation .

Good luck
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 08:13 PM
(#19)
Weeharry777's Avatar
Since: May 2010
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by joy7108 View Post
+1000 Moxie. As long as you blame the RNG for all your bad luck, you have a good excuse not to study and improve your game. Accept responsibility for your decisions, good ones will result in an overall winning game.

PS. I started with zero, and have a comfortable BR now, I don't think it's cause they like me.
Well Joy going by your last 8 tournaments it looks like you have mastered the art of bankroll management looks like your comfortable BR will keep you going for some time.
Oh and keep up the studies and your game will improve.

GameID Date Type EntryFee Position Profit
451340947 7-Oct-11 04:50 NL Holdem $0.23 21/45 -$0.25
451338000 7-Oct-11 04:32 NL Holdem $0.23 31/45 -$0.25
450025157 4-Oct-11 05:15 NL Holdem $1.35 9/10 -$1.50
449579284 3-Oct-11 04:51 NL Holdem $1.35 4/10 $0.57
449573716 3-Oct-11 04:25 NL Holdem $1.35 10/10 -$1.50
449567091 3-Oct-11 03:32 NL Holdem $1.35 3/10 $0.54
449146739 2-Oct-11 05:53 NL Holdem $1.35 9/10 -$1.50
449133532 2-Oct-11 04:36 NL Holdem $3.26 9/10 -$3.50
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 08:31 PM
(#20)
roomik17's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,556
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeharry777 View Post
Well Joy going by your last 8 tournaments it looks like you have mastered the art of bankroll management looks like your comfortable BR will keep you going for some time.
Oh and keep up the studies and your game will improve.

GameID Date Type EntryFee Position Profit
451340947 7-Oct-11 04:50 NL Holdem $0.23 21/45 -$0.25
451338000 7-Oct-11 04:32 NL Holdem $0.23 31/45 -$0.25
450025157 4-Oct-11 05:15 NL Holdem $1.35 9/10 -$1.50
449579284 3-Oct-11 04:51 NL Holdem $1.35 4/10 $0.57
449573716 3-Oct-11 04:25 NL Holdem $1.35 10/10 -$1.50
449567091 3-Oct-11 03:32 NL Holdem $1.35 3/10 $0.54
449146739 2-Oct-11 05:53 NL Holdem $1.35 9/10 -$1.50
449133532 2-Oct-11 04:36 NL Holdem $3.26 9/10 -$3.50
So she only cashed in 2 of the 8 you scoped.. whats your point?
 

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