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That "other" place

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That "other" place - Sat Oct 08, 2011, 07:07 AM
(#1)
Darkman61's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,225
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I don't give two hoots about this bunch of thieves, so I don't know whether this is the latest word. Might be of interest to some though.

http://www.pokerplayer.co.uk/news/la...50bfba30aafcb7
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 11:49 AM
(#2)
Pentire's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 117
The same Bernard Tapie who was Chairman of Olympique Marseille I assume.

Who was convicted of match-fixing in 1993.

Who is clearly not fit to be in charge of a gaming company.

Standard for full-tilt.

This should get players rushing back to full-tilt's virtual felts.
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 04:53 PM
(#3)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
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Seems like good news to me if it will get that mess of a mess straightened out with the DOJ. I won't ever be playing there and never have so don't care about players funds or who is running things behind the scenes.
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 05:52 PM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockerguyAA View Post
I won't ever be playing there and never have so don't care about players funds
If you're a poker player you should care about players being cheated out of their funds regardless of whether or not you are at a personal loss. I'm just dumbfounded.
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 06:36 PM
(#5)
Herkstwin's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 255
Never liked the software or the look and feel of FT, so didn't play there much. Now we have a broken down ponzi scheme being taken over by a match-fixing bailout company? That should instill confidence in the FT site.

The players deserve their refunds. PS should watch this event unfold and offer a special bonus to FT players who transfer their FT refunds to PS. Besides, if FT can reach a favourable resolution, PS should be included and that would get our US friends back.

Herk
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 06:58 PM
(#6)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockerguyAA View Post
Seems like good news to me if it will get that mess of a mess straightened out with the DOJ. I won't ever be playing there and never have so don't care about players funds or who is running things behind the scenes.

Pretty sure at this point that Stars,FT and UB are all going to be dealt with separate from each other. They may have been in the same business as each other but the way they operated couldn't be more different.

As for not caring whether peeps who were playing there and deposited,freerolled or whatever but were competing with the expectation of being compensated for what they had won being cheated...

WTF rocker?
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 09:04 PM
(#7)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herkstwin View Post
Never liked the software or the look and feel of FT, so didn't play there much. Now we have a broken down ponzi scheme being taken over by a match-fixing bailout company? That should instill confidence in the FT site.

The players deserve their refunds. PS should watch this event unfold and offer a special bonus to FT players who transfer their FT refunds to PS. Besides, if FT can reach a favourable resolution, PS should be included and that would get our US friends back.

Herk
I didn't know that you could transfer funds from one poker site to another,

How do you do that ?

 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 09:19 PM
(#8)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
If you're a poker player you should care about players being cheated out of their funds regardless of whether or not you are at a personal loss. I'm just dumbfounded.
amen!

Even if you do not care about fellow players and their losses because you feel poker should be an individual and competitive game, you probably should care about all that lovely money disappearing from the poker "economy" as a whole...

Sure, a bunch of it went to pay off pro's who may well cycle a good bit BACK into poker, but even those guys are probably using SOME of the ill gotten booty (ill booten gotty?) from that particular's sites implosion to fund ventures outside of poker!

Poker is a zero sum game, and the only money you can WIN is the money someone else LOSES. that means every dollar taken out of the poker economy and spent elsewhere, means 1 less dollar there for YOU to have a shot at winning...

So Dave is right, this DOES effect you too!
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 09:39 PM
(#9)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
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Sorry forgot some people play on more sites than just Pokerstars. Probably should have kept that comment to myself. I do care a lot about the state of the poker industry as a whole. Personally though, players getting their funds back is very low on the importance list for me. My focus is more on Pokerstars, US regulation, DOJ, moving/working abroad to play poker. Another big reason why those funds are not important to me is because I honestly don't believe those funds will ever be returned.

Have more to say, but out of time. Will wait until I have the time to properly hash out my thoughts and not say something as unthoughtful again.
 
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Sat Oct 08, 2011, 09:41 PM
(#10)
Herkstwin's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curran View Post
I didn't know that you could transfer funds from one poker site to another,

How do you do that ?

You are right - no site-to-site transfer. My intention was that players would take their refunds and immediately deposit the money at PS - The way my wife transfers money from my wallet to her purse. Then PS would welcome them with a bonus.

Enter Bonus Code "ByeByeFT"

Herk
 
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Sun Oct 09, 2011, 12:20 AM
(#11)
johannfl's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockerguyAA View Post
Sorry forgot some people play on more sites than just Pokerstars. Probably should have kept that comment to myself. I do care a lot about the state of the poker industry as a whole. Personally though, players getting their funds back is very low on the importance list for me. My focus is more on Pokerstars, US regulation, DOJ, moving/working abroad to play poker. Another big reason why those funds are not important to me is because I honestly don't believe those funds will ever be returned.

Have more to say, but out of time. Will wait until I have the time to properly hash out my thoughts and not say something as unthoughtful again.
I'm wondering how much the FT thing helped or hurt the online gaming industry.
As much as I hate big govt, it seems and maybe it is the only, and (cringe) best way if for it to be govt regulated.
You cant win at a game in Vegas and get ripped off why?
Clearly its been shown certain private enron companies madoff cant healthsouth always arthur anderson be worldcom trusted.

Lets regulate and legalize online poker.
 
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Sun Oct 09, 2011, 05:08 AM
(#12)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
This is a good point Johann...

We all really do not have a CLUE how solid and solvent many of the on line poker sites are, since most of 'em are not publicly traded, thus have no need to reveal their books to ANYONE.

It is kind of like putting your faith in BANKS when there is/was no real regulation in the U.S.

You "knew" banks would take your deposits and use the money on investments, but without any real over-sight you had no clue how risky their investments were, nor how MUCH of the depositors money was actually available if you needed yours back. Back in the great depression depression (a while after the stock market crash), lack of sufficient available funds when people began to lose faith in the banks caused HUGE numbers of those institutions to collapse.

I really have to wonder how many OTHER sites would "crash" if depositors stage a similar "run" of withdrawals. Stars has shown they could weather the storm, but that still is not the same as full transparency, and government regulation. BUT...

If I were to have faith in ANY on line site, it would definately be 'Stars.
 
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Sun Oct 09, 2011, 07:42 PM
(#13)
Herkstwin's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 255
All good points.

Online Poker is legal here in Canada - and winnings are tax free, just like they are in B&M Card rooms. I would love to have our American friends back on the real money tables at PS, but you gotta believe that when it is legalized it will be taxed. Will the rake be a deduction? Will loses be negative income?
Here's hoping the DoJ moves quickly.

I've heard that Canadians do not bother with small tournaments in the US because there is a 30% withholding tax and the paperwork required to track and eventually recover it is not worth the effort.

I am with you JDean - PS has my support and trust.
 
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Sun Oct 09, 2011, 08:15 PM
(#14)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
US tax regulations allow for gambling losses to offset gambling winnings but not other income.
 
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Sun Oct 09, 2011, 08:33 PM
(#15)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,831
(Super-Moderator)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
US tax regulations allow for gambling losses to offset gambling winnings but not other income.
feds, yes... alot of states...no. Good example, you can't offset horse race winnings with losses in IL (know it applies to alot of other states too).
 
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Sun Oct 09, 2011, 08:40 PM
(#16)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Here is a good page for info about the differences between a recreational and professional gambler in the USA:

http://www.traderstatus.com/professi...status.com.htm
 
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Sun Oct 09, 2011, 09:14 PM
(#17)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herkstwin View Post
but you gotta believe that when it is legalized it will be taxed.
All gambling winnings are already taxed in the US... at least they're supposed to be, including cash games etc. You're required to report your gambling winnings. What may change in a regulated online US market is that sites may be required to provide a tax statement with win/loss info. I don't know, just speculating. But the IRS should be strongly behind this, because we all know a lot of gambling winnings don't get reported and some are impossible to track (like live cash games for example), but the track-ability of online poker would certainly lead to increased payment of income taxes on gambling winnings in the US, especially if an annual tax statement were filed with the IRS by the site (much like when the casino gives a W2-g for tournament winnings).

Of course when it's legalized and regulated in the US it will be taxed, but that tax won't be paid by you, it'll be a business tax or operators tax etc (whatever they'll call it) on the sites. And the sites will gladly pay it to be in the huge poker market here. Now whether or not the sites pass some of that burden along to the players in the form of additional rake, remains to be seen. I suspect any rake increase will be minimal or not at all because 1) I think they can already afford to eat the cost with the additional profits they get from rake generated from US players and increase their profit margin despite whatever tax is imposed, and 2) the market would figure to be very competitive. Again I'm just speculating on that part.
 
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Sun Oct 09, 2011, 09:17 PM
(#18)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockerguyAA View Post
Sorry forgot some people play on more sites than just Pokerstars. Probably should have kept that comment to myself. I do care a lot about the state of the poker industry as a whole. Personally though, players getting their funds back is very low on the importance list for me. My focus is more on Pokerstars, US regulation, DOJ, moving/working abroad to play poker. Another big reason why those funds are not important to me is because I honestly don't believe those funds will ever be returned.

Have more to say, but out of time. Will wait until I have the time to properly hash out my thoughts and not say something as unthoughtful again.
Too late.

Sentences 3 and 4 conflict with each other imo. I think sentence 2 is right on though.
 
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Mon Oct 10, 2011, 04:06 PM
(#19)
Link2me's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Any decision by the DOJ atm whether in favour of the players or not will not bring back us costomers unless stars agrees to let the DOJ have complete control over the books, see the really big issue behind the scenes here is taxes on winnings to the locals withing thier borders.

It is a virtual cash cow which the government nor the tax bureau can turn a blind eye to, millions and millions of dollars slipping through thier hands at the end of the day.

The DOJ are taking advantage of the situation and one day all the players who live and play online poker in the states will be paying taxes on any and all winnings.

Sad but true this is all about the dollars here now and it will take a miracle for pokerstars to ever agree with letting the DOJ have full access to all thier books, many of which I am sure have disappeared in lite of recent events.

One day they will be back if Poker Stars can work out a deal with them which is not likly imho any time soon, and when they do come back they will be paying taxes on any and all winnings which really sucks for them, I mean the DOJ/government imho has a firm grasp on everyones nuts within that country even offshore operators that decide to conduct buisness within thier borders.

I am almost positive not only the players will be taxed for winning's but they will also want revenue from poker stars take as well. Will stars wanna give up a chunk of the pie it all depends on how much take they get from costomers within the states vs how much they pay out to citizins within the states on a weekly/monthly basis, if the margin is not very profitable stars I fear will not agree to a deal cause it just wont be worth thier time or effort to set all the wheels in motion imho.

It is wishful thinking even with the latest news to think it is going to happen anytime soon, anyways thanks for the update DARKMAN

CHEERS

Last edited by Link2me; Mon Oct 10, 2011 at 04:08 PM..
 
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Mon Oct 10, 2011, 04:16 PM
(#20)
mtnestegg's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,336
I think you have that a bit backwards link.... FIRST they want stars taxes, not yours n mine...what they'll collect from players is chicken scratch compaired to what the'll get from the site ( any site) and even so they wont be taxing our winnings per se, they'll be taxing our profits since our losses can be deducted up to the amount of our winnings, so the vast majority of us players won't be getting taxed at all as they are losing players.

Last edited by mtnestegg; Mon Oct 10, 2011 at 07:25 PM..
 

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