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Trying to bet for thin value .

 
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Trying to bet for thin value . - Sun Oct 09, 2011, 10:39 AM
(#1)
JARGON1977's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 66
Hello ,

I decided to bet for thin value on the river having lead the hand from the start with second pair good kicker , I was raised by the villain of whom I had no reads upon (I'm working upon identifying & categorising opponents) .





My question is : Was this an OK spot to bet for thin value ?

Though second pair seems a little thin I thought I would try to bet it for once , bearing in mind a check call would be the comfort zone my game has found itself in , of course I would have preferred TOPTOP .

Maybe my opponents draws had busted and a check would appear weak enough that they bluff at the pot or value bet their Queen at a price I could afford to call .

I believe betting for thin value is best against 'Passive villains' as 'Tight' players may only call such a bet or even raise our bet with hands that beat us ... certainly beating second pair . Clearly identifying my opponents will help with such decisions .

Most recently I have been watching 'XFLIXX' tutorial videos again & I'm trying to implement as much as I can into my game - including betting for thin value as well as fat value .

I would like your thoughts as to whether the line I took was reasonable .

JARGON1977

Last edited by JARGON1977; Sun Oct 09, 2011 at 11:15 AM..
 
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Sun Oct 09, 2011, 01:32 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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I'd have checked the flop since I didn't hit it, for pot control and to hope I get a free card. No problem betting the turn since you hit the jack. I also don't mind the bet on the river, but the check-raise screams to me that the opp has a Q.. since they called a bet on every street.

Since the opp called a bet on every street, they had to have a Q or stretching AK into a bluff (unlikely). If I had to pick one hand for them, I'd say they had QJs (hit the flop with a weak kicker, why they check/call.. then on turn, same thing with check/call trying to keep others in the pot... then since you're barrelling preflop and every street, I'd definitely go for a check-raise on the river).
 
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Mon Oct 10, 2011, 04:24 AM
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oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
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How likely is he to try to bluff catch with a hand like , or worse? All the draws miss so he may try to catch you.

If it's too early for you to have reads on him, it's too early to make a play like this. If he's a call station with any pair the value here is fine. If he's a thinking player who realizes that you might be likely to bluff when every draw misses there is value in getting him to try to catch a bluff here. And heck if you think he would bluff shove the river with a missed draw you might be able to get it in with 2nd pair.

I probably bet flop, bet turn and river depends on how passive villain is. Bet/call if he'll try to take it ), bet/fold if he's only raising better, maybe make a small blocker bet against an aggressive player to give him the illusion of fold equity and forcing him to polarize his range, intending to call a shove. But this really depends on how we've seen villain play.

Actually this board is interesting. All the draws miss, but so many likely hands have a piece of the board with showdown value. Because of this I kind of like value betting 2nd pair, since for instance 98 really doesn't want to fold, and I doubt a Q is raising.

Might he instead turn a missed draw bluff catcher into a bluff? Like , , etc.

Really feels like he has 87 or 77. But you're getting better than 3 to 1, so if he's ever bluffing here you have to call. You only have to be right about 22% of the time for a call to be +EV. He's probably not raising a ton of Qx hands here.

Last edited by oriholic; Mon Oct 10, 2011 at 04:33 AM..
 
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Mon Oct 10, 2011, 04:32 AM
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oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
I'd have checked the flop since I didn't hit it, for pot control and to hope I get a free card. No problem betting the turn since you hit the jack. I also don't mind the bet on the river, but the check-raise screams to me that the opp has a Q.. since they called a bet on every street.

Since the opp called a bet on every street, they had to have a Q or stretching AK into a bluff (unlikely). If I had to pick one hand for them, I'd say they had QJs (hit the flop with a weak kicker, why they check/call.. then on turn, same thing with check/call trying to keep others in the pot... then since you're barrelling preflop and every street, I'd definitely go for a check-raise on the river).
Why pot control if you have nothing Generally you want to build big pots when you bluff, if only to make it harder for weak one pair hands to call you down. You're not really hoping to check down king high are you?

Also, villain is on the button and thus can't check/raise. I don't think a hero check/raise with 2nd pair good kicker makes sense. What worse hand is going to bet/call the river when check-raised? What better hand will bet/fold the river when check-raised? You also allow a ton of worse hands to check behind, missing out on value from all his middle pair hands, especially 67, 98, T8, JT, etc.
 

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