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Too tight a fold?

 
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Too tight a fold? - Fri Oct 14, 2011, 09:10 PM
(#1)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,024
(Community Coordinator)
Sometimes I think I play too tight..... I'd like to loosen up my game and practice more LAG type play in certain spots depending on stack size.....

Here's a hand that would have won if it went to showdown but I folded post flop. I'm not great at working out pot odds etc....

Was the post flop fold too tight here or was I getting the right odds to call?

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner
 
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Fri Oct 14, 2011, 09:39 PM
(#2)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalraise85 View Post
Sometimes I think I play too tight..... I'd like to loosen up my game and practice more LAG type play in certain spots depending on stack size.....

Here's a hand that would have won if it went to showdown but I folded post flop. I'm not great at working out pot odds etc....

Was the post flop fold too tight here or was I getting the right odds to call?

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner


Perfectly correct fold here royal. Yeah no one ever likes to have a real hand,raise it pre,see an unfavorable flop,get pushed off the hand and then see their nut card board. But it will happen and you just have to understand that all you can control is the decisions you make at the time you make them with the information you have.

Examine this hand for all it's components...

1. It's 1st blind level. You have 71.5 BB's left AFTER you put 60 chips in this pot with your pre-flop raise (perfectly fine raise here BTW,the 3x bet,try to do standard size 3x betting like this so as not to give off a tell).

Three players call your raise. Fair to assume there is at least one Ace in that mix somewhere and a hand with a Q in it is very likely as well,AQ,KQ,QJ,Q10....heck I'm going out on a limb by your posts in the Honu Challenge thread and guessing this may be a .25 45 man. If that's the case then ANY Qx suited is very possible to be called from the BB and any Q8 or better non-suited.

2. The flop hits 10QA rainbow. Okay as seen above it's well within the likely ranges of any of the callers to have any Ace in their hand and quite a large range of Q's as well. All of which suck for you.

SB leads out for a bet (kinda a crappy raise into that pot BTW,too light IMO) and the BB 6x bet raises him. That's an auto-fold for you really,as he may have well flipped his hand up at this point. He is ALWAYS having either an Ace or a big Q here. AQ is a definite possibility.

3. If you call here,what can you really hope for to fall that you know you're golden? A board this wet you may be drawing dead as far as your 2 jacks are concerned, as AK could easily be in one of these hands and you're set gets pawned by their Broadway. So really the absolute best you can hope for is a King,and 1or even 2 of them could be in these hands or even the hand of the 4th pre-flop caller who folded for that matter.

Way to early to be risking your stack (or at least a sizeable portion of it) to a very thin draw. Because you KNOW you're on a draw if you continue in this hand,the chances that you are calling ahead here are nil.

You did everything correctly here IMO royal. Pre-flop raise is fine. And this is a 100% correct fold,you made the only real play you could make at the time.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 09:43 PM..
 
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Fri Oct 14, 2011, 10:04 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
it was absolutely the correct fold. You were most likely behind at the time and even if you get a K... you many only be playing for a chop.

It's way too early to be risking any amount of chips with a hand you know you're behind with.
 
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Fri Oct 14, 2011, 10:24 PM
(#4)
JDean's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,145
BronzeStar
Not too tight at all for an MTT...

Keep in mind, in an MTT you not only have chip accumulation as a goal, but also chip preservation.

In this spot, you will not "know" for sure a made straight will give you more than a CHOP.

You will also not know a J coming to give you a SET will not give someone the straight with 4 broadway cards on the board.

You do not know if someone has the A hi straight already.

With ZERO "certain" outs to a win of the entire pot, and a "sure loss" of AT LEAST 320 total of your just under 1500 start stack (right around 20%), there is no NEED to keep going with a draw here.

Plus, if you DO get yourself 20% invested by calling here and then you miss the turn, how much might you have to pay to see the river? Even if you could be CERTAIN all 6 of your outs were "clean", you;d still only have a 12.8% chance to hit one on the turn before you'd have to (probably, almost certainly) pay MORE to keep drawing.


The bet and raise in front of you means there is little shot BOTH opponents would "give up" here if you raised aggressively on a semi-bluff, so the 2 overs on the flop to your JJ plus your tiny chance of improvement, is plenty of reason to keep your loss as small as possible by folding away those 60 chips.

Well played.
 
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Sat Oct 15, 2011, 01:44 AM
(#5)
oriholic's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 751
BronzeStar
At this level your preflop raise over a limper is a little small. Other than that, you played the hand perfectly. This is not the right spot to mess around with a gutshot straight draw.
 
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Sat Oct 15, 2011, 12:51 PM
(#6)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,024
(Community Coordinator)
Thanks to all..... really impressed with the quality of the responses here!

@moxie pip "heck I'm going out on a limb by your posts in the Honu Challenge thread and guessing this may be a .25 45 man."

Lol, safe assumption and 10/10 for your observation skills.
 
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Sat Oct 15, 2011, 05:02 PM
(#7)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalraise85 View Post
Thanks to all..... really impressed with the quality of the responses here!

@moxie pip "heck I'm going out on a limb by your posts in the Honu Challenge thread and guessing this may be a .25 45 man."

Lol, safe assumption and 10/10 for your observation skills.

LOL,safer than you know even,hehe.

I know you're doing a grind on those so that helped. Second I've played enough of them (would kill to be loading up 4 right now ) that when I see that we're in first orbit,or just starting second,of the first blind level and Rickchips and the I'm Brown.... player have THOSE stacks already...well,been there seen that enough times,lol.

Can you remember what they shipped to get those stacks? I'd bet at least one of them shipped garbage and luckboxed a hand.

Keep in mind,always,that in the 45 man structure even an early double or triple up is NOT enough chips to get you ITM so it's not worth it taking undue risks to chase after pots like that. Save your chips for the bubble when the blinds and antes are worth getting into a flip situation if you have to. There will be plenty of chances in these to take advantage of the exploitable players later in the tournament. If you make goal number one on your list when you play these to always try to make the last 2 tables and the early bubble then you WILL see your ITM and ROI %'s grow,I promise you that.

Good luck with it.
 

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